Does anyone know when the Zipabox 2 is released? And when will it be available in the Netherlands?
Very interested in this also, waiting to hear before i make any desions about moving away from Homey to Zipabox.
I was thinking about moving from Zipatile to Homey, why would you move from Homey? What is the problem?
Bart, Homey development to the next release of software has been painfully slow, with very little in the way of communication to keep people interested. It is now several months late, and the beta releases are a backwards step as some of my devices and rules will no longer operate.
They are also pursuing a policy of only being able to write and modify rules on a mobile phone, and maybe a tablet. (but that is unclear) Some of my rules are quite complex and benefit from being seen on a bigger screen.
The unit itself is small and neat, and has everything built in, but development is slow and backwards for me !
Thanks Andrew, did you consider Fibaro Home Centre 2? I am on verge of moving there...What you think?
Hi Bart, yes i did look at that but is does not talk to Lightwave RF, and i use a lot of there sockets as they are one of the best looking wall sockets out there !
why are you thinking about moving away from Zipato ?
Hi Andrew and Bart,
Having used Zipato for years, both as a user and integrator and now having used Homey for about 4 months, I can help to answer and dispute some of your concerns.
Homey has indeed taking a while to upgrade their firmware to version 2.0. But it is now done and in Beta version. Meanwhile the current version is operating and functioning well and has been upgraded and maintained well during the course. Communication has been there, mainly on the Slack community and via a few of the more well known users. Yes they are moving away from a pure Windows based application, to an app version. This does not stop you programming on a Windows computer, and they will support a browser version also, making it compatible across all platforms. But Homey works well and has numerous "apps" (3rd party supported devices) that Zipato cant even begin to compete with. Plus an active developer community and full SDK available so you can create your own additions to Homey Hubs. This is where the development of a product shines, 3rd party developer support, this way you dont need to be totally reliant on the manufacturer themselves who have there own agendas.
There are mainly some Hardware deficiencies with the Hub, but overall far better and more reliable and versatile than a Home Centre Lite or Zipabox. Z-wave Range is poor, and no Ethernet connection is frustrating, but my units still communicate faster over Wifi than a Zipabox (version 1).
Zipato has almost no progression for a year, its firmware upgrades are continuous, but major improvements like Homeys is needed to improve devices responsiveness and reliability. This will not come any time soon. And you complain of lack of communication, Zipato is "KING" You checked out the social pages didn't you?
And while you may like the idea of a computer based application to program, Zipatos is cloud based only via an internet browser, there is no application to program locally. But I find Zipatos programming and UI of the Control Center to be great, when it works. Just wish there was a local application that could be used, or via the app for small changes.
The Homey App itself is not very good for organizing and structuring your device layout especially in Tablet form, but at least they are consistent across all platforms, Zipato has been running with the old app version for IOS for years, while the Android app looks totally different. They promised a universal UI over a year ago. So you can see that not all is greener on the other side. But Zipatos android app and new app (though I have only seen screenshots) looks very good. But again, no customisation for the end user. At least with Homey I can choose a different colour background. And Homeys new Beta app is far better.
I think a big step is having the ability to program via the app. I am not sure why you disagree with this direction of Athom (Homey), you can still program via an emulator or Browser, but the ability to either program a small system or make changes to a system via an app is not only convenient but amazing. I cant wait to use a 10" Android Tablet and S Pen to program a small job.
I am not sure what type of devices you currently have in your system or how large it is, but dont be so quick to dismiss Homey. I have been waiting for years for Zipato to implement for the type of upgrades Homey already have.
And Zipato dont listen to the community at all. Try getting a new product integrated with Zipato controllers, unless it is a fully Z-wave certified and complied device. And Homey is a small company selling in only a few markets.
Dont get me wrong, I love Zipato and its products, if produced at a higher quality which they seem to be now, (still think Zipatile should have 3/4G ram, POE, SD card/4G sim card slot) but in terms of progression, you only need to read this forum or check out the most requested features https://community.zipato.com/?order=popular&object_type=all&category_id=all&page=1 and see what has actually been implemented.
My perfect solution, a Zipabox with all its expansion module options running Athom Homey software that developers can create their own device support for. Plus the option of creating Hardware expansion modules also.
My 2 Cents.
Thanks for your 2 cents. This is a good read and insight.
I fell in love with Zipato years ago when I have seen the Zipatile. I loved the idea and it worked for me for ~2 years, I got one from pre-releases. My rules were not so advanced and had about 40 devices total. This was purely the best experience to have a tablet running android Sonos App to control music. And 6 programmable buttons (working at about 85% - often not usable by my wife and accuracy of it was bad, gestures - forget, still...)
But as Adrian wrote - 2 years have passed and there is little progress. Tablet is laggy and slow. RAM is low. Additionally, I never used IP camera integration - too complex and buggy. I never used alarm integration - I believe it is not stable enough. My notifications never worked. My Tile got broken screen on top with flickers, but i could not send it service as no backup function was available, I waited till this February - now it is out of warranty. Now I started to integrate thermostat valves, motion and temp sensors and some extra switches. Z-Wave network is nearly dead, Zipatile is not handling communication and getting frozen everyday. Rules are not executed. Adding new devices one day for 2 hours without luck - server was down. This is getting frustrating. And I am not even half way through with additional implementation.
As you mention, Zipato seems not to care much about their users - this might be the Eastern European approach or basically lack of good product/section managers or simply lack of maturity in handling clients and their needs. In my opinion, this will be eventually an end to Zipato, not caring that much and adapting to needs. Z-Wave or Zigbee is going to be in most electronic products in 2019-2020, look at Ikea for example, Xiaomi... More people will look at controllers and more will review them. In my opinion, as for now, we are just a handful of people doing home automation, but soon this will for the masses.
My friends dismissed Zipato after 5 months of trial; mostly being switched off, buggy and difficult to integrate other systems (Somfy etc). Shame it was my recommendation. I would wait for new Tile but this will be available probably March for end users. And then, you have a Tile but core system is still the same. In me experience this is a good "toy" for people with up to 20 devices tops - then it is getting laggy and not sufficient.
I have decided to try with Fibaro now as main Z-Wave controller - I hate the tablet/phone UI, but here I will use ImperiHome or Rasperry Pi with HomeAssistant to build what I need per house level / room / group. HA will need some extra level of programming but I will eventually get there (lets hope). This is most flexible, but open source - I really love smart mirror projects that could be used with Z-Wave / other devices (Google/Alexa) example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVmDjJmcd2M.
Also, I would like to use Zipatile and secondary controller to Fibaro and handle 6 buttons plus Sonos / Imperihome. Adrain - do you know if there is a possibility of adding Zipa to another system and a secondary?
Homey, I would give it a try - but it is unavailable now. Unless, Andresw you want to part with yours at a price :)
All the best guys in New Year.
I think the title of this tread is very clear to majority of people, but, Adrian and Bart found it as a good way to promote some alternatives to Zipato. I don't want to go into further discussion based on these posts, but I would be very cautious listening their advises. Although they claim different, their knowledge about Zipato is very limited, they don't have any official relationship with Zipato and their posts are full of incorrect information. We don't know anything about systems which they are promoting here and these may be great solution, however, duo to their lack of understanding of Zipato, I would certainly recommend you to test it on your own before making any conclusion based on these posts.
Been having a look over the web site, facebook (last update oct 18), twitter (Aug 18) and the blog (sep 18), all seem to be a little out of date.
The forum seems to have a few unaswered major questions and no sign of a date commitment for Zipabox / tile 2. Should be shipping now according to some posts !
Is this company still moving forward ?
Am i looking at a product that is not going to be around in the future, don't want to buy something that later become unsupported !
Looked at this and gave it a try 1 year ago, but have to give up and go to a Homey, hoped progress would have been made by now....but don't look like it !
Why do you want to move from Homey to Zipato?
Yes progress has been very slow with Zipato lately, dont know why.
Adrian, Homey development to the next release of software has been painfully slow, will little in the way of communication to keep people interested. It is now several months late, and the beta releases are a backwards step as some of my devices and rules will no longer operate.
They are also perusing a policy of only being able to write and modify rules on a mobile phone, and maybe a tablet. Some of my rules are quite complex and benefit from being seen on a bigger screen.
The homey webinterface will be gone in 2.0 (because the hardware can not handle it) so if you're talking about many devices? Homey isnt te right choice anymore! you cant configure complex scenes on a mobile app.. its a joke!
There are couple of threads related to new products so we will soon come out with the single thread explaining the current status of the development and roadmap for new products.
Meanwhile, first batch of Zipabox2 has been already produced and we will start shipping in January.
Zipatile2 is in production and we plan to start shipping in February.
New Zipato mobile APP for iOS and Android will go out as beta in January (hopefully first part of it, although CES will not help us with allocation of resources).
All details about each one of these new products, as well as about new architectural changes within Zipato platform will be available here soon.
Very anxious to see all the details. Thanks for the update.
Define soon :)
Great news Sebastian.
Can you give us any idea of the spec or changes to "box 2" that may wet our appetite and allow us to get excited about it. Is it a hardware and software update ?
Are the additional plug in units updated and available at the same time ?
I have not managed to find anything online and would like to start reviewing it to see if it does in fact meet my needs.
As you have now produced and tested it i assume you have this information ?
Zipabox2 will look exactly the same as Zipabox1. However the concept will be a bit different. Main unit will come without Z-wave module built inside, so Z-wave module will be available through additional Z-wave expansion module, just like Zigbee, EnOcean and other modules... Total price of both Main unit and Z-wave expansion module will stay the same as the price of Zipabox1 (Zipabox 1 will be Euro 149.- and Zwave expansion module will be Euro 49.-).
Main advantages of Zipabox2 over Zipabox1 are as follows:
WIFI and Bluetooth
PoE and Battery
USB 2.0 downstream port
Regarding the software, there were many improvements made in the last couple of months. Some of them are available already with Zipabox1 but some of them including all future ones will only be available with Zipabox2. We will come out with more details after CES.
Will it be possible to add the Zipabox 2 to our current clusters allowing everything we already have, setup in a cluster, to work on the new device?
Cluster will be no longer available. We will migrate to MultiServer systems were mulltiple servers can work together but only one of them will be Master and rest of them will be Slaves. This option will be functionally very similar to Cluster, but there are some technical improvements compering to the current Cluster option.Once we introduce the new architecture (which is probably happen in January) current Clusters will still continue to work but creating a new one will no longer be possible and we will be encouraging users to migrate their systems to the new architecture due to easier maintenance and higher reliability.
A year ago I paid for a pro licence for my Zipabox and also a pro licence for my Zipatile so I could make a cluster. To use the new multisever option will I have to pay again?
Will the old plug in modules (Zigbee, EnOcean etc) work with the new V2 box or will they require to be updated also ?
If they do need replacing, are these unit ready to ship in Jan 19 also ?
Cluster license will enable MulitServer license.
@AndrewExpansion modules are compatible with both Zipabox1 and Zipabox2. No need for replacement.
I'll be migrating my system as soon as possible and look forward to the new Zipabox2.
Thanks Sebastian, look forward to trying the new box as soon as possible.
Will full support for the MQTT protocol in zipatile2 be implemented? It's important for me.
Good to know the wait is almost over.
I am highly interrested in the Zipatile 2 and I wonder where I can find the specs for this device?
For example is zigbee and Z-wave still both supported?
Great news - looking forward getting the ZB2 and test the multi server in my nicely IOT crowed home
let me have the info as soon as possible
Zipatile2 is running the same Zipato Local Server app as Zipabox so MQTT is already implemented. MQTT is onlly available for sending/receiving attribute values for devices.
We will present the new Zipatile2 here soon (after CES). First batch is expected to be ready in February. There will be couple of models available for orders and one of them will have Zigbee/Z-wave. However, Zipatile2 is much more versatile device so many other alternatives are possible and we are still about to decide which options we will push in which market channel.
Under the MQTT protocol will all connected devices be accessible or only internal?
Sebastian, you say that MQTT is already implemented, and is running on the Local Server app.
Why then does my ticket which asks where communication comes from state that it comes only from the "cloud"?
Why was the only response (after weeks of waiting/nagging for response) to be told that I have to pay for developer time to get any assistance with MQTT?
If I had any faith left in Zipato's ability to actually solve issues, I may consider paying for time, but as it is out of my last 8 tickets I have had:
But it's nice that Sebastian can find time to respond to criticism of Zipato (albeit by saying that it's inaccurate without refuting any specific points). It's a shame that nobody can find time to either respond to questions regarding Alexa integration (was v3 ever released?), or even be bothered to remove the spam: https://community.zipato.com/topic/adding-support-for-alexa-smart-home-skill-v3
Communication out of Zipato has not been good (apart from a few exceptions where it's been great), overall it's left me feeling very unhappy.
I'm really interested on upgrading my box and tile for the new versions, I have backup license for both, are we going to be able to replace one unit for another via backup restore or our systems would have to be rebuilt in order to upgrade?
Well, I use Zipatile and it is very unstable, lags, freezes on software/hardware and most importantly on Z-Wave network. Rules are delayed or not executed properly. This is just old. My two other friends jumped to Fibaro from Zipabox and they say it is just much better. MUCH. I am still reluctant as I have don’t like the UI of Fibaro.
Mobile app is horrible to be honest and I am happy I still have ImperiHome from old days that I can use without subscription. Cannot design your views like on OpenHab2 for example. I you have 60+ devices navigation on PC (panel) can be very difficult.
From: Zipato Support Portal <email@example.com>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 11:21 AM
To: Bart Warot <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: New Comment in "Release Zipabox2"
Agree, the Fibaro UI also put me off !
But main issue was lack of support for Lightwave RF sockets, I have over 30 of them they they form a fundamental part of my home system !
Well, than you either have to risk Zipato or stay with Homey. Or change switches 😊
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 12:26 PM
Yup, that's my choices !
I am looking to move away from homee but if you look into the communities it is exactly the same everywhere. Too many bugs, too less support, too slow development. I was hoping to find anything different here.
Comment from a Zipabox and ZipaTile owner
My Zipabox1 has 93 devices registered and I have not experienced anything like the types of issues mentioned here. My Zipabox1 has 18 rules and I use it control heating and lighting. I also have an alarm set up.
I don't use the video integration but have DLink cameras and use the DLink App for that currently.
I have a Zipatile1 and just use that as a wall controller for the Zipabox1. Also seems to work perfectly for me.
I have a second Zipabox1 in the garage that is used to monitor inbound electricity. Again. works without problem for me.
Personally, I have found the system to be very stable. My only current issues are:
1) Philips Hue Hub integration does not work reliably for me. Strangely the Philips Hue app does work reliably...
2) Lightwave RF sockets sometimes do not react to the corresponding signal and/or there are delays responding.
Looking forward to seeing the new iOS app and of course the new hardware too...
I would love it if Zipato supported LightwaveRf version 2 to allow two way communication...
I have 294 devices according to Device Manager, and 270 rules. My system is very stable. But getting to this point took time, and you have to understand the controller's foibles and weaknesses and work around them.
Thank you guys for your positive words. Maybe I should buy one and just try if it works for me.
I just read on the blog zipabox.de that he believes the ZipaTile2 will cost something around 900 €. This would be quit shocking :)
that where Infos one Year ago....maybe Sebastian can give us a direction?
Oh, I did not get that. So as I am always glad to read in your blog - this time I hope you are completely wrong :)Btw. thank you!
Zipatile2 will have different versions since there are various radio and output options supported. However, the general model is planned to have retail price Euro 599.-
Ok, this is crazy :) This is too much in my opionion. I thought it would be about the price of V1 but this is way out of the range I was willing to spend on this device.
Really, €599 🤣 thats almost twice the price of v1. I think i will start searching for something else.
just do it
Why are you rude? It's unnecessary! Let people have their opinions or try to convince them to reconsider!
I agree, thats a really dumb way to communicate with customers.
Ok on my account i was a bit fast with my comment about the price. I mean lets see if it is worth the money.
We all know it would be more expensive but did not expect it to be almost twice the price.
But yes i was suprised about the reaction.🤔
Yes it is not a nice way, but it is of course ok to let people go if they do not match with your way of pricing. I already checked the first version and had chosen homee. This was maybe not the perfect choice and now I was thinking about Tipatile 2 but it is too expensive so yeah - this won´t work for us :/
I do websites in my daily job. If I make an offer that is way too expensive for my customer, there is almost no chance to find a reasonable compromise.
Sad but true.
Hey Sebastian, what is the reason for such a big jump in your pricing? The stronger hardware won´t make that big difference, I think. It is double the price of V1. Why don´t you give us some more infos on the important changes and why they make the device expensive. So maybe we find some things that make us feel good while paying more than we wanted.
Going back to the title of the original post about ZipaBox 2. I would like to understand how much a Zipabox 2 would improve my system. Currently my Zipabox 1 does a great job and seems to have enough resources to do all that I want. For me to upgrade I would need to know exactly what I would gain - especially because any hardware "upgrade" is always a painful, time consuming process. I read that ZipaBox 2 has more CPU power, own battery and no Z-Wave built in but I have Zipabox1 (with built in Z-wave of course) with backup battery module and 433 module for lightwave sockets. I am struggling to understand why I should upgrade - unless Zipato have some future plans that mandate the power of a Zipabox 2...
I would also like to know more about Zipabox 2. I am a user of Zipabox 1. I wonder when zipato should announce a long information about their news
Me too. I am a happy (sometimes frustrated) user running a Zipabox, with added 433mhz and Zigbee module, for some years now. I have 100+ units and 100+ rules, alarm and thermostats and the system is more or less totally stable. If the Zipabox2 offers a battery backup, a local system that works without the cloud, and a new professional looking iOS app, I will be buying one without checking the price. Hopefully!!
Addtionally I can comment about what I think is best with Zipato. It's actually the virtual devices (together with the outstanding rules creator). Those stupid little virtual units enable me to "go crazy" and basically test all my crazy ideas. Three of my favorite examples:
- Control the lights in my garden (z-wave,433mhz and DMX) using Google assistent when sitting in the spa.
- Log us five family members and react if all of us leave home and then activate the alarm.....and deactivate when coming home again and notify us parents etc.
- Keep hourly track of the cost for electricity and compare it with the past weeks average and react to extra high or low costs based on my rules.
Yes yes. There are many systems offering similar functions but hey. I don't want to use many systems. Only one! And those virtual devices are often the key.
@Sebastian and your team!
Thank you for a good system! I am sure you will soon make many of your forum users more happy! Please also focus on improving your communications about news and milestones. It's better to keep the info coming even if it's not always great news.
@Henning - can you share how you manage to ...
Yes Henning, please share!
No problem. Just give me few days and I share how I realized these crazy ideas and post a new topic.
I'll let you know....
Hi Henning, they are not crazy they are amazing!
Ok guys. The first HHH (Happy Henning's Howto) is now published as a new topic.
Search topics for HHH.
I will try to do the others soon but at least ASAP.
Don't say I did not warn you! :)
I will check these rules out :)
I am also very excited to know about the new system.
Have been running Zipa box 1 in my cabbin for about 3 years. and its ok stable. but I must say I have been thinking about leaving the zipato for another system...
I am about to start to have smart system in my house also, then I read about zipabox 2 zipatile 2 and new app.
But very little information. so i guess i wil wait and see how it looks before considering fibaro, smarthings etc
I belive in zipato, but does anyone have a link for information on the new system ?
It was stated: "Meanwhile, first batch of Zipabox2 has been already produced and we will start shipping in January."January is over))
I ordered the new Zipabox 2 to replace my current Zipabox.
Can I easily replace it? especially with the backup?
would I keep my pro license?
Hey Stillwatter. I'm sorry I don't have any answers for you. Only a question:
Where/How did you order you new Zbox2?
For info, a question asked to Zipato support. And I will wait to order it :
I ordered the new Zipabox 2 to replace my current Zipabox.
Can I easily replace it? especially with the backup?
would I keep my pro license?
we cannot say for sure just yet but we will try to implement a feature for the upgrade, so all devices and data would be transferred to the new controller.
However, licences wouldn't be transferable as this can only be done in case the controller fails in the warranty and only then.
Transfer all devices and data can offcorse be tricky if the new box use a new platform or something. Lets hope they find a solution for that. (Imagine how many iPhone 4 users were impressed how easy is was to transfer all info from the old iPhone (or even other brands) and then decided that this is the phone company they would prefer forever.) :)
License sounds strange?! If you pay for a license it must belong to you and your account and not to your old box!? This I hope I have misunderstood somehow.
Thanks for sharing the domotique link. It's not possible to order from the Zipato site. At least not when I browse choosing my region and country.
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