Thank you and goodbye

Nicklas Simberg shared this thanks 2 weeks ago

After all of this year’s I'm now leaving (at least for now) the Zipa infrastructure.

A big thank you to the support staff and the developers I been in contact withover the years.

I'm really sorry that this did not work out in the end, I really hope that the platform in the end succeeds and becomes the system of your vision.

For me sadly the energy has depleted. I spent so many hours and days trying to geta stable system out of the platform and the zipabox DUO. I have had the device since it was released.

Few lines that maybe is not so pleasant and thoughts from a long time customer.

Fix the stability.

Drop the cloud or make it less dependent on it (sorry it sucks when microseconds feels long)

Don’t release half beta tested functions to main crowd. I can’t even count how many times I upgraded and it screwed up something existing and I had to revert back

Zipa communication:

Don’t delete peoples threads on forum just due to they are negative about your products.

Don’t promise development that you never deliver. (or takes 2 years rather then few weeks as stated and then charge extra for)

Don’t defend your own platform with bashing other systems.

And last but not least, take time and discuss with users and answer questions on the community.

Comments (21)

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Hi Nicklas,

We are truly sorry to hear you are leaving after more than 3 years being with us.

Thank you for the time you've spent using Zipato's platform. During that period Zipato became better and more reliable, and in one way we have to thank you as a user that helped us achieve that with numerous testing, bug reporting and advising.

We are aware that there is still room for improvements, and we'll never stop working on that.

Zipato platform is constantly being improved from points of stability and robustness, and also new features.

We decreased the number of bugs and our system is more stable and reliable than it was a year ago, so we strongly believe that we are going in the right direction.

The last but not the least - we hope that one day you will return, and continue using Zipato products :)

Regards,

Zipato Team

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Thanks Nicklas for all your help over the years. Sad to see you go, but understandable. I think we are all of the same opinion.

I have many more points to add to this list, but am just tired of it all.

Yes the reliability has improved, then an upgrade and something breaks. I spend more time fixing customers not working systems due to an upgrade in firmware (remove the upgrade Zipatile menu popups please).

Zipato upgrade a screen popup screen message and voice message, but not proper Sonos text to voice output or playlist selections. No Logitech Harmony support. Alexa voice commands for dimmers has no on/off or open/close. No google home or IFTTT support.

No IOS update after 1 year of a new android app. WTF.

No Local control unless you have a Zipatile, why no local connection via your phone app, had this once and it worked great and fast. To bad if you have a Zipabox only

Great we have a SIP function. Still rather use a cheap PBX box and Bria app, works better. Thankfully Alexa have better intercom usage now, just add an Echo dot or Show to a room for much easier intercom service in house.

and the Pro licence per controller per user. so expensive a solution.

Like you said, no roadmap/communication.

Zipato have a great range of supported devices and can do alot compared to other controllers, and Zipato support guys are tops, but it just isnt reliable enough. Reboots, unable to login, alarm arming and disarming issues, this list goes on. Nobody at Zipato lives with a full zipato system in their own house(as far as I am aware), and I think this is the biggest issue. You need to experience a solution first hand continuously to understand the issues and needs that arise.

I have more points, but haven't the energy.

Goodbye Nicklas, be sure to visit and tell us of your other exploits if they are positive.

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I am also leaving now as I currently set up a different system at the moment.

My Zipatile will stay as Android walltablet to run the app of my new system.

As I came from HC2, I was really soooo lucky with my Zipabox for a while. But as the Zipatile came, the problems began and never ended. With both systems! It got better after a year that is true, but still not good enough. I was tired of trying new things and the fun of using dissapeared after a while.

As the others states as well, the bugs are not the biggest issue, as almost every system has some.

It is the lack of transparent communication and sometimes the way some people from Zipato treat their customers. I know they have a vision, but it would be great to share it with us. Personally I want to know where the journey is going. Also a vague roadmap and a regulary status update would have been great. But only promising or saying nothing is not enough.

I go with every single aspect the others brought up here in this thread, as they are all singing from the same hymn sheet. It is sad as the idea of the system is great.

I also know I was not the easiest customer for Zipato, and there will be people who are happy about my leaving, but maybe my expetations were to high.

However, I wish you all a cheerful future and who knows maybe I will come back by any chance.

Keep your head held high!

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I agree to both of your comments, and I've similar compatibility issues as @Adrian.

I would also like to add the bad screen quality of zipatile, it is supplied wth a plastic screen guard which is cut edge-to-edge and no room for error for application, and I've never seen soemone able to apply the screen guard perfectly. Why we cannot have a tempered glass, it is so easy to apply.

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I agree gorilla glass is a must.

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I totaly agree and I am also about to leave as the stability of my ZipaBox isn't acceptable any more. Quite every week I have to reboot the box to get it online again. As there is still no option to create a rule for a reboot I have to do it manualy. Only possible if I am at home, but what about holidays and the system breaks?! I am investigating other options, so I am very interested to know to which of the many systems you are changing to. My actual favourite is the Athom Homey as it can support a lot of protocols. And they do have a very open communication strategy & roadmap.

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I own a Homey now since a few days. Too early to say how everything works. But for me also the communication was the main reason and that I can code everything by my self what I think that is missing and of course not cloud dependant. You can contact me in a view weeks if you want. As I use my real name here so it should not be too hard to find my contact details.

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Hi Christoph. I am curieus about your experience with the Homey.

We too I am no longer using the the Zipatile and preordered the Neeo Remote and bridge.... which unfortunately did not ship yet.

Was thinking of buying a HC2 as a temporry solution, but from what I understand from you your experience with the Fibaro platform was even inferior to that with Zipatile?

Anyway the Zipatile does not provide a reallife workable solution. Cloud connection and limited driver support for media devices such as sonos is a requirement for me. And the surface scratches to fast for everyday use which is a disadvantage when using it as a wall tablet for other systems.

I might keep the Zipatile to function as a wall tablet... still to be decided

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@Christoph: Thanks. I will surely contact you about your experience with the Homey. This might become my winter Project. I have also seen you already have an account on the Homey community as you use the same photo :-) .....

Sure this thread will be deleted soon .....

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@Jochen. You can contact me, as I don´t want to make advertisement for other systems here or to offend Zipato. There are also many user out there who are statisfied I guess and I don´t want to influence them.

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I also which everyone a good luck in the new journey. Fully understand your comments and agree. Things take too long to develop and even if they are, it usually is not stable or something else drops out what was working before.

Surely it is not easy for them either.

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I currently own four different system (Fibaro HC2, Zipato, SmarThings & HomeSeer). I consider all of them horrid. I am about to go back to an OmniPro as I know it is a solid home controller and security system. The home controllers that where born from the ZWave product boom all seem to be run and developed by start ups and junior level programming staff.

I have developed server level code for more than 30 years for one of the largest PC/Server manufactures in the world, if we released server level firmware that the above aforementioned companies have released for the home controllers/security panels we would be out of business. I'm not quite sure that any of these companies are taking any of these comments really serious. If not they will die on the vine in the next coming year or two.

I dont make these comments lightly, nor to bash any company, but these manufactures are using their customer base as test facilities, slow to release new features, slow to release bug fixes, slow to respond to customer queries, the list goes on. Some of this is because they dont have the funds and the staff to manage even their small customer bases, but they need to address all this to grow their base in a hungry market place that will only grow from here and see more vendors. So they best get a hold of their space now, as a new one will surely pop out of the weeds tomorrow to take their place.

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Well said! Using ELK M1 here for security and fire alarm. It is UL listed. Lutron for light controls. All integrated with a software controller.

Unfortunately the business plan is not about the product, It is about to drive the most consumers into some recurring subscription model and/or a walled garden, where they develop a Stockholm syndrome - that is they feel they paid so much they will stick with the product and tolerate the kinks.

Just as the US big box stores got into this quickly and they got out very quickly, this will pass and the streets will be littered with useless, abandoned products.

I would be very interested to find out why Zipato chose to maintain a closed architecture, where they decide what to support and what not. The Samsungs, Apples and Googles have big enough clout to make such a decision, and you can seen how well worked out for Homekit, which is now open... and nobody would know the name, except a lot of people carry an iOS device.

They could have opened it up, and let the customers to build the support for their devices, and provide official support for the devices is used the most and charge extra for that, whatever...

There was a post recently from a Zip guy that said that people were asking for some Rain_Z device and not for Denon HEOS, again did they determine this from how many likes these got on this forum, or they somehow spy on their users what they have, I would bet there are more Denon HEOS compatible music components are sold than the other one.

There are a lot of business school material here...

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I do not want to blame the Zipato team at all - things always look easier from outside than they are. I am working in development too and know very well. I have the ZipaBox for over nearly 3 years now and it was a very good setp into my smart home activities. Nervertheless I feel the ZipaBox overaged., the Zipatile is no Option.

I will leave with some tears in my eyes and will always have a look on Zipato for new interesting devices.

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I replaced my Zipabox with a Zipatile 3 months ago and that has dramatically increased both speed and reliability of my system.

So, I cannot recognise all the negative comments regarding the stability of the Zipato system.

BUT the ISO app will soon be a deal breaker for me. We primarily interact with our smart system by using the app. It’s so lousy designed and maintained that we daily get frustrated when using it.

We are in 2017 – why not spend the few resources needed to bring the app up to date … or integrate to Apple Homekit?

For more than a year we have been promised a new app and still nothing has happened. Unless something happens soon I will also leave the Zipato system.

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Hope not too late to ask those that are taking their hats: what steps are you taking to disconnect your Zipatile from Zipato cloud? Logging out and factory reset is sufficient? I tried to keep my tiles like that and they still phoning home, downloading updates, or traffic is stopped on a firewall level?

thanks, one more reason to try to gain root access, as a vanilla android on these would make a more useful wall mounted tablet.

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First of all Nicklas, thank you for using our products. I don't know which products you were exactly using in your system, but I am sorry to hear that you couldn't make it work as you wish. As you know, we were always trying to help you both here and through our ticketing system.

Even so we are not charging any subscription for our service, we are always trying to be as helpful as possible for everyone. We are sorry that we can't fulfil everyone's wishes, as this is sometimes very difficult. Just as Michael Brundridge says, neither one controller is good for him:-( But still, there are thousands of people which are using Zipato products worldwide and they are happy with them. Certainly they would be even more happy if we would add some additional options which they need, but they are not bashing us on this community because of that, like few people here do. For example, there are thousands of people which are using Zipatile around the World, and they are very happy with it, but still some people are constantly bashing it here.

Anyway, I am not sure whether your comment is really the right one after so many tickets and posts which we replied to you, but thank you for your feedback. We will certainly continue improving both our products and our communication.

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Dear Mr. Popovic,

I will throw in some roses and thorns in this thread, good and bad. I think Nicklas have valid points. But first a short brief about my experiences so you'll know some of my background before I bring up some things. I've been working with computers for about 35 years, from childhood up to where I am now, working full-time in the IT business and also having a company on my side. I know software (but I'm not a programmer), I know support, I know hardware, I know testing, I know communication.

My first experience in Home Automation was from another brand than Zipato. Having used that awhile (happily), the Zipatile was released. I thought that would be even better, being a tablet that I can place and reach out to and control, beautiful web UI etc. I bought it, installed it and put the other brand to the side. I found that the Zipato service was very unreliable. I shelved it and then installed the first brand again, and have been running it for nearly a year. Unfortunately the unit had a hardware breakdown, so now I have installed the Zipatile once again.

Both my Home Automation units have used the same cabled network. 100Mbit city fiber, and 100Mbit Ethernet internal network in the house. Ethernet connection on the Zipatile, airplane mode activated. I have used the same Hue system, Sonos, Fibaro Eyes, Power Plugs, Door Sensors, Water sensor on both systems.

I'm sorry to say that at least once every week I have some sort of problem with the Zipato service. It could be a motion controlled light suddenly turning on in the middle of the night when there is no movement at all. Or motion controlled lights not turning off or on. I have come home after some hours going down in the cellar, and found lights on that should be off. I've had a rule that stopped working suddenly one morning when I got up (it worked when I went to bed) and when I logged in the devices where not correct in the rule. And, as often mentioned is that the service itself goes up and down. Every week I get messages that the Zipatile is offline. The other brand never went offline unless I pulled the power plug. Several times the Zipatile itself have hung (with strange colors, black screen). Last week the garage door sensor showed the door was open but it was closed. I tried waking up the sensor, but no change. I tried pulling the battery, waking up but no change. I closed my phone app and tried again, no change. About half an hour with doing this and that, suddenly the door showed closed when it was closed. I then opened the door, but then it showed closed... I gave up. I checked yesterday though, and then it worked.

No, I'm not bashing, I'm just telling my experiences. But that was some thorns.

Now to some roses:

* I like having a tablet, placed in the hall I can quickly check things.

* I like the Web UI.

* The times I have contacted support via mail, the responses have been quite fast and polite (but not always helpful, for instance answering why the Zipato have no contact).

* I like the opportunity to test betas - but where is the changelogs promised a year ago?

What needs to be addressed:

Stability and Reliability, Stability and Reliability and Stability and Reliability! It's not ok that rules stops behaving or that the system looses contact with the service, making lights go on etc. How can we trust the system as a security system? I cannot trust light going off, so I have reverted to manually switch them off on the wall.

Consider users not as bashers, but as your friends. In the end, we are the ones that keeps Zipato breathing. Without customers - no company. Yes, some users might not behave, but mostly those who take time writing here, are the ones actually caring also. They want the product be as promised, they want it to be even better, if it gets even better, you will also have a stronger product. And, often in forums, it is inevitable that complains are written more than praises. To be honest, how many goes back to the food marked to say "That was a good cartoon of milk!"? But on the other hand, if you buy a good expensive steak and open the vacuum packaging and a rotten stink emerges, what do you do? If you leave the car in for service to fix some things, and you get the car back and they find that they haven't fixed the things, what do you do? You complain. If you have as you say, thousands of happy users and a few complaints here, do you think all the happy users are happy users? Or could it be that they really don't care when things go up and down and report it here? Could it be that they also stopped using the system? Should you not care of the people reporting the issues, and strive to be better?

Communication:

I hope that the Zipato team can turn back and be a bit positive here on the forum. To have a presence here, and to promote an active engagement. Things I would like to see is the Zipato team offering examples of rules for instance, showing smart things that can be done. This would make users interested in trying, and in turn it might promote users giving a lot of tips here. There are some here, but nowhere close to the tips and help people get at the official forum from the other brand I used. Positive engagement from the forum admin there, coupled with interested users really drive things forward for both parties.

Charging for the service:

If you want to charge for hardware as well as the service, make sure you really have something on your feet for doing that. Look at the competition, my (at least at the moment) former brand have an active user base, continued development including beta released for the public, no extra charging for the service, and a stable and reliable service.

Roses and thorns, these are my experiences and my suggestions. I like your system, I think you have achieved a lot, but do fix the Stability and Reliability issues that so many experience.

Thank you for your time,

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Very interesting discussion. I am a user now for nearly three years. I am working in the medicine field and using computers since 40 years. My first I built up was an apple II. I use a Zipabox and a Zipatile. Not in a cloud, but they speak and work together via HTTP-commands. I use about 80 devices. In the time I use this system I reduced my cost for heating more than that I paid for the whole system. Overall I am satisfied, even there are some issues which will be solved in the future. If one has a look in other forums, you will find everywhere bugs and problems. In the discussion here I like to see that there is a difference between the things Ziapto is responsible and issues related to unspecific zwave problems and problems coming from devices. We are talking about devices which cost about 40-50€ in average. This cannot be an industrial standard as I know it from medical devices. Home automation is still something for people who like to try out something. The system is getting better and better. And I am sure Zipato is observing the other systems....

By the way: Since some weeks I have my box covered so I cannot see it anymore. No blinking in green or blue. Since this time the box is much more stable :-) and my nerves getting relaxed....

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No, Z-wave devices are not industrial or military grade. No home system is yet perfect (and as Everything else, probably never will be). Yes, Zipato is getting better.

My observation is from comparing Zipato with another home system (with the exact same Z-wave devices - none added and none removed, and no device have changed place in the house), and what I see is a clear difference, in reliability and stability. Is my experience better today than it was nearly a year ago? Perhaps a tiny bit, but hardly measurable when it comes to stability and reliability. Yes, new functions have been added and that is good,

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I´m one of the users who has hardly had any problems since I fully set up my system and now I don´t change anything anymore.

Most of the time my Zipabox runs stable and I only have approx. one reboot per month. So apart from the missing backup feature in smart licence I´m quite happy.

The only sensors I use are four amazon alexa, a motionsensor and two door sensors, two remote controls in case the internet connection breaks down plus a couple of schedulers and HTTP switches in my 20 rules to switch on and off some z-wave lamps and six wall plugs.

So all in all I still would recommend the system to all users who want a flexible system with one exeptions:

With most of my devices now being voice operated via alexa I have the choice between just switching them on and off with a cheap devices (e.g. ikea tradfri) or the zipatobox for about 300 Euros (with Pro Licence to get at least backup) That´s quite a difference for a starter or a replacement and you really have to use some smart features for a zipato system to pay off compared to the arising competition from cheap systems. I´m still insecure if I (in case my zipatobox breaks down) will do all the work again if I have to start from scratch because I have no backup. I think then I would be better of if I live with fewer funktions on a cheaper system (and perhaps a free backup)

Stability is no problem for me since my box runs stable (apart from alexa who stopped working right now for the second time ;-)) But I hope that will be fixed very fast again.

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