Update on new (and long awaited) new features

Carlo shared this question 48 days ago
Need Answer

Hello Zipato team, can you kindly update the whole community about new features that are being promised from a long time and for which all previous deadlines had been missed?

Features:

  • Alexa in Italian (has been promised the publishing on Italian store with current config)
  • Alexa v3
  • Gooogle home
  • New Mobile APP (presented at last CES, and to it is also related some fix of current app ...)

Thanks in advance.

Comments (32)

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News?

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When will the app published?

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You forgot Netatmo Support ;-)

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Pretty sure we dont get any update this year.

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LOL.


Updates from zipato? Forget it.


And anyway, every timeline (when rarely declared) is systematically disregarded.. so don't expect anything at a certain date.. because you wouldn't get it (and this explain why they rarely declare a timeline for features..).


Google home integration was promised to be released at september ends..

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Here is the update.

For the last 2 years we were working on the new Zipato backend (v3), new Zipato APP for both iOS and Android (no, that's not the iOS one which we started to work on 3 years ago), new Zipabox2 which should replace both Zipabox1 and ZIpamicro and Zipatile2 which will bring Zipatile1 on to the next level of technical and design performance.

It is obvious that these are replacements for all our products so it was like creating an new Zipato, except that we were having bunch of code running and significant experience from running previous Zipato before. But still, this was a huge job and it took us much longer than we planned initially. This was also the reason why some promised improvements of the existing platform were not published and even worse, we were having more then regular cloud outages.

Anyway, we are on our way out now and this is the current status of projects mentioned above:

  • Zipato v3 is currently up and running in some early beta stage. We are planning to release it by the end of this month.
    The main difference is that v3 is based on Systems which users will have to create first and then register their controller(s) within these particular Systems. All details, will be published soon within the new knowledge base section on this portal.
  • New Zipato mobile App will be published for both Android and iOS this month together with Zipato v3 since the new App will only work with Zipato v3. Yes, this means that you won't be able to use the new App with your existing installations, but you will have to create new Systems in Zipato v3 environment:-( I know this is a hassle, but that will result with much less hassle in the future maintenance of these systems and hopefully bigger customer satisfaction at the end. Although migration is not possible automatically, and new Systems will have to be created manually (including rules, scenes and virtual devices), it will be possible to unregister existing controllers from the existing platform and register them within a new Systems so it won't be necessary to pari all devices again.
    New mobile app will practically replace both current mobile apps and web app since it has all configuration options available inside. Only rule creator will stay as web application from obvious design reasons. We are quite excited about the architecture of the new mobile app and we believe it will be very competitive smart home solution.
  • Zipabox2 is already on the market. It is way stronger than Zipabox1, it has backup battery inside, WiFi and additional USB port. However, it doesn't have Z-wave build in the main unit. Z-wave is not an additional expansion module just like all the other supported radio modules. This way, users can buy only the main unit and attach only the radio module(s) which they really use.
  • Zipatile2 was a huge project. We designed completely new device based on the same concept as it is Zipatile1. We were using the experience which we gained with Zipatile1 and we made a better looking and more reliable home server. However, production of Zipatile2 got stuck due to issues with production of the metal mid frame. It is very big and complex and the production goes too slow. That's why we had to engage more production lines and each one is taking months for setting up. Meanwhile we have decided to sell them only for large projects which were already in queue for delivery and we will start selling them online once after we start receiving midframes from new production lines. We expect that this will happen in this December.

Regarding some general improvements, we are planning to finally release Google Assistant integration by the end of this year, as well as support for Amazon Alexa v3 API (meanwhile the current integration is fully functional).

Hopefully this update will help you to better understand what is going on here and what we are planning to do. There will be many more upgrades once after we finally migrate to these new products completely as we will certainly be more efficient then.

Meanwhile. I wish to thank you for your patience and support. I hope we will continue improving the new platform together and make it to be as good as we all want it to be.

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Let's wait till the end of November and see...

Regarding Alexa it's not yet published in Italian store, in May you said that if v3 had took too much time the app would had been published on Italian store as it is but that never happened (and 6 months has passed).

Another concern that I have is related to the new app, because the old one got some new bug (probably due to server side update) and support said that the fix will be released in the new app...

... but the new app will require a new backend and this make no sense at all.

A final question come to my mind: the new v3 architecture will also have a new pricing model?

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I hope this is a bad joke. I have over 260 Rules, more than 150devices + 100 virtual devices. I need a week vacation to do this. I will never do this. What is the alternative? Stay at the old platform without any updates in the future?

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I hope its a bad joke. This is terrible to do this.... I have finished my system for a few days. Thats too much work...

Or can Zipato take a Backup and generate a new Backup for the new Zipato V3. I have never heard from a system that have no translator for a a new platform....

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Perfect zipato style.


No problems for new customers. Existing customers will have to suffer pains to migrate to a new system with a migration that can fail (and then a re-including process will be mandatory), an entire set of rule that will have to be rebuilt from the scratch; this obviously mean COSTS on customers that are unable to operate in "DIY mode", that requiring a professional (and time costs for others).


Any rule in the system is built with a JSON file and a java class.. and you don't foresee a automatic migration?


And what you expect to do if your customers will refuse to accept to rebuilt their systems and mantain the old system? you will have to mantein two systems, old and new (or at least mantain a wrapper that you need to update everytime you have to update the new system, doubling your work). Only god know what can happen.


Let me to say that it's not "an hassle". An big hassle is a cloud outage for mantainance (when you have to disarm your alarm, as example)

I'm without words. This is a lot lot lot worse.

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Hi Sebastian,

You talk all the time about Zipabox2 and Zipatile2, but... What about Zipabox1?, Can Zipabox1 upgrade to V3?, and, Will we continue having support if we don't upgrade it?

You said "it won't be necessary to pari all devices again.". Do you mean we don't have to pair the devices, and we "only" have to re-create rules and scenes?

And what about virtual alarms,... Do you have to re-create it?

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I will not be migrating my 250+ rules. I will simply switch to a different platform when the time comes. That's beyond unacceptable.

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It's odd to see companies make this mistake again and again. When your customers cannot easily move to another platform but have easy migration to new versions of your platform, you have "lock-in". When you make migrating to a new version of your own platform just as hard as moving to a different one, you release all your existing customers from lock-in. Commercially, that's insane.

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I agree.

If I have to redo everything, I prefer to change the system.

So much year galley to have to do everything again, and not knowing what the new system is worth? It's a risk that I will not take with zipato ...

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I agree too.

I have read it several times, and I'm afraid they are trying to sell us the new Zipabox2 or Zipatile2.

I don't like what I'm reading..."Zipabox2",..."Zipabox2"..."Zipabox2"... and WHAT ABOUT ZIPABOX1 CUSTOMERS?

And I don't know if my Zipabox1 has any future or if it is a dead product.

I like my Zipabox1 and I was happy with it, but I don't like what I'm reading.

Customers are an active for any company, but for Zipato...

I bought a Zipabox, 433Mhz module, backup module, Zipato 3g dongle, 2 zipato rfid keypad, plenty of sensor installed, siren, etc. And I was thinking about buying the zigbee module.

I thougth I was a good customer, and now I feel Zipato is leaving me laid on the floor.

Zipato makes me change my system, and They expect I will do it to another Zipato.

This forum is getting full of negative opinions. I think today, opinions are very important for new customer.

Does Zipato expect to increase sales treating their customers this way?

I think Zipato has to look for solutions for its customer, to ease the migration.

Of course trying to improve a way to migrate, but if it wasn't possible, looking for alternatives...

An option could be to give as the possibility of make a backup (without cost) and use it if the V3 does not work as we expect.

Or the possibility to keep the current system while we configure the V3. And enable or disable one or the other while we are testing or migrating.

And finally if there are people who can't change, keep the current version, but with the possibility of managing the controller locally. And the V3 with cloud support for new installations.

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Hi,

I am sorry to say but i think that Zipabox 1 is, more or less, end of life. I have bought that box +/- 6 years ago and all these years it was doing its thing. But it has limited memory and no way to change that. So it was just a matter of time that this memory was becoming a serious bottleneck. So it is up to Zipato what to decide what to do with it. To bring much more features to this box is almost impossible because of this memory limit. The most probable thing is to froze the thing in specs. And that is not what you like. Months ago i have bought a new box, because the old one broke down. But hey: 200 / 6 = 30 Eur per year is cheap for this hardware (at least i think so) and all the old extensions (Zigbee, 433) still works. And yes I am a very happy customer.

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John,I don't doubt the capabilities of the Zipabox 2. I'm happy to buy one. But if I'm going to be forced to reimplement a very complex system from scratch, why wouldn't I consider other platforms, since the effort involved is going to be fairly similar? It's inexplicable to me that automatic migration is not factoring into planning from day one. You're throwing away the hold you have on existing customers.

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Hi John, sorry but I don't agree

I bought my Zipabox 3 years ago, backup module 2 years, and the 433Mhz module this year. They can't let it die when there are still devices for sale in the market.

Zipabox 1 is not the newest box, but it works fine, and there are many systems that can be managed correctly with it.

Scheduled obsolescence??

I have and older and less powerfull VERA_Lite, and its firmware is updated.

I have and old IPhone 4, and its firmware is updated, and old mac laptop, and its firmware is updated. Because there are companies that care for customers.

Obviously, I can't pretend to run 4k or use 5G with my iPhone 4, but it can work correctly updated and do many things with it.

With my VeraLite is the same, I can't pretend to do all thing I could do with a VeraPlus, but it can still manage many system correctly with the newest firmware.

May be Zipabox1 is not the newset one, but is usefull for many systems like mine. 40 sensor and 20 rules can be manage with it without any problem.

If I have to change, I won't do it for a Zipabox2+Zwave module, too expensive and too insecurity in the medium term. How knows if in two years they decide to implement V4 only in a newest "Zipabox3"?

Now I'm starting to regret when I decide to change my old system from Vera to Zipato. Product is good enought, but service...

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Hi @David,

Sometimes it's better to start from scratch again. Begin this year my old box (zp1) broke down. The backup facility was lousy because i couldnot transfer a backup form ZP1 to ZP2. So I had the same thoughts. Transfer to another system or stay to start all over again. I did in the past tests with some others: Vera, Homey to name a few. But they all had, like Zipato, their limitations. So i decided to stay at Zipato but did something additional: bought a Raspberry PI and installed Openhab2 on it. Both systems are running parallel now. If Zipabox fails the other one takes over and vice versa. Writing my rules all over again did reduce the number quite some bit and also reduced the number of virtual devices. Nowaday i am happy the complete configuration is running smoothly and doing all what i need. With my openhab mobile i can speak with my devices (google). But that is a thing i don't rely on. And the best thing if i ever, ever decide to switch to another system it is easy to implement.

Bottom line is that after all these years i don't believe in 1 single system. There is always some limitation

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I'm interested about openhab running in parallel. You mean you added openhab (with a Zwave stick) as secondary controller able to control all the Zwave devices under zipabox? Can you give more details about?

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@Simone

I use a Raspberry pi 3B+ with zwave usb-stick from Vision. Software: Openhab, Mosquitto (MQTT broker) and to come: a Zigbee stick

Zwave Zipabox is primary and yes: Openhab is secondary controller: works great. No problems whatsoever. I always have the possibilty to make Openhab the primary and zipabox a secondary controller.

I use MQTT for talking to the 433MHz and Zigbee and virtual devices. To be completely independent i am going to use a Zigbee stick for the Zigbee devices. The 433 MHz devices here are not important and will be obsolete soon.

From Openhab I can control any Zipabox device.

If you have more questions feel free to ask

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Ok, so I correctly understood.


If you can provide me more details about placing openhab as secondary controller I'll be happy (I have in mind to try with home assistant too).


I'll probably going to use an rpi4, where I plan to run also shinobi (security camera recording like zoneminder).


What's the medium cpu load with openhab?

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Others may have the time to implement and maintain two parallel home automation systems - not me

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I have a phone that does not work all the time. So I have a second when the first one does not work. But I'm really happy with my first phone ... I do not know what to say ...

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That's hardly comparable. Phones are not home automation systems with hundreds of rules and devices.

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oh well ... I started migrating to Home Assistant. It's a lot cheaper, more stable and a lot more flexible. I already have a very fancy alarm system, google assistant and sonos integration ready. Took one day of setting up the software and doing some tinkering. Steep but do-able learning curve. Bye Bye Zipabox.

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@ John

I am quite experienced in using Zipato but bloody newbee in anything like Http-requests, using IFTTT and also in adding a secondary controller. But I am searching for a long while for a possibility to add devices, which are not supported by Zipato (e.g. io homecontrol) which will be possible via rpi. So I am highly interested how you implemented a rpi as a secondary controller. Especially as I can use it obviously as a back-up controller and on top I can train my ability to program rules via rpi (just in case I want to get fully independent from Zipato ;-) )

Could you imagine to give me advice in detail?

Best Regards

Bernd

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@Bend,

Sorry for being so late in my response but I was occupied with other things. Adding a rpi as secondary controller is not that difficult. First of all you need (of course) a raspberry with some memory ( i use a model 3B+ and 16 gB sd card) 3B+ has wifi and bluetooth, quite handy for me. 16 gB is more then enough (or 32 gB). At this moment I have 2-3 gB in use. Most of the opensource stuff (openhab, home assistent, domoticz) are offering a sd image for download. Very usefull. I have selected Openhab because of the very, very large forum users. In the forum there is always someone with the right answer. Besides that Openhab on the sd-image comes with a nice configuration utility to add additional components (i.e. NodeRed, Mosquitto (MQTT), Influxdb + grafana (graphics) etc)

First level of integration is to simply use MQTT. Zipabox and Openhab can communicate using that protocol. Just install Mosquitto (see above). In Zipato define the MQTT server. Now every item with an UUID) talks to the MQTT server. In openhab define a MQTT-thing and proper channel. and you can work with that zipato item from openhab. And the otherway is also possible: In openhab define a thing (homecontrol?) in Zipato define something virtual. And in the same way the items are communicating.

For now: i have to go. Questions, please ask. However it can take some time for an answer because lately i visit this forum +/- once a week.

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Last week of November starting. Are you still going to release Zipato v3 and also new Android app this month like you wrote 21 days ago?

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@ John,

as you see I am not every day visiting this forum, too. Your first hints are highly appreciated. As I right now have an outdated rpi from the 1st or 2nd generation I will buy an new one - as you suggested a 3B+ or even a 4 and download openhab. Do I understand it right that I do not need a Z-wave stick for the rpi because ZipaTile and rpi communicate directly via MQTT ?

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@Bernd,

Yes you are right. As a first step you can use MQTT to operate any Device on a Zipabox/tile whatever. I did that at first with my Z-Wave, Zigbee, Somfy, CoCo and virtual devices on my ZP2. Then as a second step I implemented a Z-Wave usb-stick on the rpi. Makes the rpi less dependable on the hardware of Zipaxxx (ZP2 a primary rpi as a secondary controller). A same thing I am going to do for the Zigbee devices.

About RP4: few months ago i heard there was a temperature issue. Not sure if that is solved yet. Otherwise better stick to the Rpi 3+ b.

If you have other questions i think it is better to open a new topic on this forum.

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Thanks John

perhaps it´s even better to change to e-mail communication? I implemented a new e-mail for you:

bernd-smarthome@freenet.de. If you like you can use it and we communicate directly.

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Just sent you an email

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Esa Åby, the app is out for more than a week already (both android and ios)


https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zipato.smarthome

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@ John

didn´t get it. Mistake in the address? I tried the address bernd-smarthome@freenet.de and it worked

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I have send you another email with tracking stuff. What i can see is that the email is not relayed (is stuck) by an emailserver in between. Can't figure out yet whether this a a server here in the Netherlands of Germany

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You can try to send an email to: swi@wxs.nl

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Do not misunderstand my words and my interest in a secondary controller.

I'm not justifying the zipato approach, absolutely (check my first post in this thread).


I think that a new backend and frontend without a totay trasparent (or anyway with limited user effort) migration is a commercial suicide.


Only users with few rules can accept to rebuild all the rules from the scratch. All the others will follow two roads: leaving zipato or stay with old system.


I hope that zipato are going to offer, at least, a free backup to help who want to try to migrate.. In case of something go bad

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I'm wondering can we update Zipatile1 to the Zipato v3?

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Hope so, otherwise no point to remain with zipato (especially without an import/export functionality of rules and device) ...

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I bought the Zipatile1 for my home 2 days ago and saw this topic. If they think to cut their support to Zipatile1, it means that they do not have business ethics. So, I will wait for their answer to my question because I need to reconsider my choices while buying smart home devices.

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I was able to download new app on Android store. So might be near now :-)

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https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zipato.smarthome is this the newest version of Zipato?


iOS: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/zipato/id1297937720


Yes, it's the new app. Here is the app description,


--- note ---

For using Zipato APP it’s necessary to have at least one Zipato controller, preferably Zipabox2 or Zipatile2.


— note for existing zipato users ---

This Zipato APP is based on Zipato v3 backend. Zipato v3 is the whole new Zipato backend and each System needs to be made from scratch. To use this APP with your current controller, it is necessary to unregister your existing controller from the Zipato v2 environment and register it within a System in Zipato v3 environment through this APP.

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Yes thats the new one. Can someone tell us the webadress for the new gui ?

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"preferably Zipabox2 or Zipatile2", is this official information? Will older devices not work good? In that case i should have my eyes open for other controller during Black Friday.

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@Mattias Andersson, Yes, it's from the AppStore Description of the new Zipato App but we should wait for their answer for this.


@André Lemke, I'm looking to but I don't see any add function web address section in the app.

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Could someone explain precisely how to unregister my Zipabox from v2 and then register it back to v3 ? Off course without loosing all my existing devices.

I now I will have to recreate rules on V3, but if I understood correctly what Sebastian said, all devices already linked/include to the zipabox should be keept after migration to V3.

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@Laurent, i would wait for official info from Zipato.. :)

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Oddly I now have a second box showing up in my panel. It's offline and has no devices but I wonder if it's a "virtual Zipabox" to help with migration? Just a thought. With the lack of direct information, fantasies run wild ;)

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I say that as its serial is S/N: VBVB00000xxxxxxxxxxx VB? Virtual Box?

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One thing that worries me about V3 and the way it has been described to us that we have to re-create all our rules is that it appears to be making us more cloud dependent. One of the reasons I chose Zipato in the first place was that they supposedly kept all rules locally on the device. Given the tiny tidbits of information that Zipato has given its loyal users so far, we can only make assumptions. Hopefully I am misinterpreting the announcements they have made so far and they are keeping to the cloudless operation model. Maybe there is just have some technical reason that all rules on the box will be wiped so we have to re-create them.

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To recreate all rules is a "smart home" suicide. Thats so unbelievable unproessionel.

/1d70a6f0c9880bf86bcadd0dd11ee08a

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I agree

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I agree, it is the opposite to "smart"

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It's a new system, you don't have to use it. You can still use the one which you use. So why do you complain? You are using it free of charge anyway.

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Because the system we use now is not good enough.


Claiming having Hue support which dont work as it should. IP cameras that dont work. I bet we wont get updates for this in old? Been told it will be fixed in new version. Now I stand here with an zipabox1 that by the looks wont work in new and wont get any updates in old.


Promised features that wont come to this system. Which will force us to migrate to new.


I can continue, I'm so disappointed with how you continue treating your customers.

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Well Mattias, I am using both Philips Hue and IP cameras so what you say it's not true. Maybe you would like them to work different, maybe you don't know how to set up your system properly, I don't know, but both of these are working.

If you want to use some other system, please do it. You are not our customer so we can't treat you as customer.

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I would recommend you to talk with your support who tried help me. Only gave me info to wait for coming versions. Why not look at my tickets yourself. Are they telling me lies?


And why never answer questions. Will zipabox1 work in new system or not?


I'm not your customer?

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We are generally trying to help everybody who is using our system, no matter they are paying customers or just users free of charge.

Regarding your tickets, be free to continue using community to express your issues as we will close your private tickets now.

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Hi Mattias,

I also use 5 IP Cameras, and all off them are working.

Regards Helle

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My philips Hue System has so many errors and many things dont work. My Ticket is open since 4 Months... And no solution.

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6months for me, but according to Sebastian we are are the problem. And now they will close my ticket. It's time for me to move to other system. Good luck guys!

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Goodbye.

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Hmm... OK the app seems to be under construction.

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OK. Is the V3 System complete online?

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Zipato v3 is online at my3.zipato.com but it's still in beta so that's why we don't promote it yet.

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Thank you Sebastian, even in beta, is it yet possible to connect a Zipabox v1 to Zipato v3 ? If it's possible could you explain the different step to follow ? When I try to add my Zipabox Serial Number I get "failed to add controller" message.

After my Zipabox V1 will be registered to Zipato V3 will I keep all features attached to my Zipabox (unlimited brands, alarm pro, thermostat pro, etc...) ?

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Hello Sebastian,

do I keep all my licenses (Pro license, backup license etc.) when I move to the V3 System?

Thanks in advance for short feedback on this.

Edit:I see I was typing to slow. So same question as from Laurant.

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Zipabox1 can't be used as Master as it is too weak, so it can only be used as Slave. Slave is sort of satellite controller for connecting more devices to Master.

Master is running all the logic within a System, thus only stronger controllers such as Zipatile1, Zipatile2 and Zipabox2 can be used as Master.

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Just to be clear.


Does it mean that we need to have at least zipabox2, zipatile1 or 2 if we want to use V3 System?


And If we only have zipabox 1 and going to buy one of these controller. Then we also need to buy all licenses again?

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So if I want to use the new iOS app on my iPhone, my only way is buying a Zipatile 1, Zipatile 2 or Zipabox 2 ? That's right ? Zipabox v1 wil keep the actual iOS app forever and it will never be possible to use the new app on Zipabox v1, could you confirm ?

So if I remember your features licensing mode, if I buy a new Zipabox v2 to be able to use the new iOS app, I will also have to buy again for the new Zipabox v2 all the features I already had on my Zipabox v1 (unlimited brands, alarm pro, etc...) ?

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Hello Sebastian, please could you answer my two questions just above ? It's very important.

Thank you.

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In short words, as I understand, zipabox1 is abandoned as is.

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As I understand the things said, not abandoned but stay in V2.

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The problem is we can stay at the old system-yes, but it's a dead system. You will not spend time anymore for updates or improvements for the old one. But updates and improvments are the core of smart home. It's a slower death but it's a death.


I have no problem to pay for an update service. You have employees and they want her salary. From my point of view your products are to cheap and thats the problem. You earn not enough money that you spend enough time for customer satisfaction. I bought a zipabox 1 and later a zipamicro. The zipamicro cost me 100 EUR, if I would getting a system with a easy update strategy and the support of newest devices I would be willing to pay 400 EUR and more for the zipamicro. Once again if you offer me a better smart home experience, I have no problem to pay for that, but when the only way is to start from scratch, then I will give my money to another competitor. I want a solution to transfer all rules and devices to a new system if the old system brokes down and I want a solution to get the V3 without lost of devices or rules. I don't want something for free, therefore please show me the way.


Btw. You only wrote about Zipabox and Zipatile. What is with the Zipamicro?

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There is no way to transfer rules to our competitor neither, and I am quite sure Zipato v3 will be extremely competitive.

Zipamicro was only sold for a limited period of time, but generally it's strong enough and it can be used as Master as well.

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How about sensors in the new config?

For now, with a Zipabox 1 it is impossible to add wifi relays, other zigbee sensors such as Xiaomi AQARA, bluetooth devices. Will the sensor data base for the new V3 be much larger? And I reffer for the start, now, not 'it will be in the future'?

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This is great news! The device I have and have spent hundreds of Euros on for extra features etc. will not have the new features. Instead I need to migrate to the next device... that is unavailable in the UK... and start again.

The most reassuring aspect is the patronising responses from Zipato. Will support continue for the Zipabox 1? Will I wake up one day to find the server no longer running as it is now redundant?

Thanks Zipato... you guys have put the excitement back into home automation!

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Hello Sebastian Popovic,


If I am getting right, can I use Zipato v3 on my Zipatile1?

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Will our Pro Licence's be transferable to V3?

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Thanks for your information Sebastian,


I don't expect a free upgrade of my system, I just want to keep working with my Zipabox1 for at least some more years.

But... "user free of charge"? really?, I paid for my Zipabox1, I paid for my backup Module, I paid for my 433Mhz Module, I paid for my Zipato 3GDongle, I paid for my Zipato Rfid Keypad, ... At last I have paid hundreds euros for a system and I don't want you to let it die.


And now I have two spend more money in a new Zipabox2 plus more money in a zWave Module and after, and I have to re-create all the rules without help or migration model; or continue working with a dying system.

I agree Mattias Andersson, Zipabox1 user are customer of Zipato, because we bought your product, and that's the difinition of customer: "a person or an organization that buys something from a shop/store or business".

I bought a Volkswagen wich I fished paying some years ago. I can't imagine volkswagen saying "You are not our customer now, you have to buy the newest Volkswagen, wich is much better". Of course I have to pay for the repair, but they repair it, they still have spare parts (even if the model is old), they update all systems and they treat me as the customer I am.

My five years old iPhone is completely updated, and they treat my as the customer I am.

And my much more older and less powerfull VERA_Lite is updated, working with the last firmware. Of course it don't work so fine as the newest, but it is updated and treat me as the customer I am.

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I hope the Hue System Bug is fixed at the New V3. Than it's no Problem. When will the V3 released for public?

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Sebastian.

Does version V3 implement the MQTT protocol?

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Sebastian.


If I install "zipatile 1" as the server, can I later change the server to "zipatile 2" and assign "zipatile 1" as a slave, without losing the device and rules?

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Yes. in v3 all rules, scenes, licenses and virtual devices are attached to the System. You can have one or many Servers within a System and you can change them, but of these will always stays with your System.

All of them are running on your Master Server, but if you change the Master Server, Cloud will restore them all on your new Master Server. So no more loosing any of these in the future.

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Does this mean that you can set up a Zipabox 1 with all connected devices in V3 as a slave and a reconnection of the devices with the master (new Zipabox 2) is not required?

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Sebastian.

Thanks for the answer, what about MQTT?

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Let me make some statements and end up in some questions, which are very important to me:

1) It is really disappointing that there is no easy way to migrate from the old v2 to the new v3 platform and in my opinion it ist not really professional. Nevertheless I do not know the technical reasons behind and up to now nobody knows which advantages we will have using v3. This will time tell.

2) What makes me more upset is the way Sebastian communicates. I am feeling not really apreciated as customer. I choose Zipato because I like the rule creator, because I enjoy free service and help and I switched to the ZipaTile because I liked the design and the features. Therefore I was willing to pay on top for the PRO service. I do not understand and I do not accept the differentiation between customers (paying) and users (just using the offered services). Everyone who is using the ZipaBox, ZipaMini or ZipaTile is a customer of Zipato. Without these people Zipato would be history since a long time. Sebatian, keep in mind we are not really dependent on you, but you are dependent on your customers.

3) For the migration to new v3 there seem to be some facts clear:

- ZipaTile 1 cannot be migrated as it is too weak

- Rules and Virtual devices have to be built up totally new in v3

- Physically devices are transferred without new inclusion

- For usage of the new IOS App migration to v3 is mandatory

Is this so far correct?

Given this is correct is there any "insurance" for the migration of the included devices? Means just for the case the migration process fails is there a backup of the v2-system to have a second chance? Or do I have to buy the backup option in advance? Keep in mind, in case I loose my rules, my virtual AND my real devices the step to another brand is not far as the effort is the same with Zipato or with another brand.

4) As I am a private user I have the time (and maybe I am willing) to built the rules right from the scratch especially as I have 50 rules "only". What makes me more worrying is that during that period of time when I recreate the rules the processes which are automated do not run. So alarm function stops, garden lights do not shine, heating is not controlled a.s.o. therefore the question is, can I have the v3 system ready before I delete my ZipaTile in the v2 system? In other words can I build a sandbox with my controller in v3 without loosing the working system in v2?

Maybe all these questions will be answered in the announced tutorial for the migration but as all of us have to decide how we go on it could be helpful to get answers a.s.a.p.

This comment reflects my personal opinion but reading the whole thread I feel to be in good society.

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@bernd: that's well said.

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Hello Bernd, just to correct some points:

Zipatile 1 can migrate to V3, but Zipabox 1 can't.

Nevertheless Zipabox1 can be integrated as a slave. For the rest I agree with you.

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Of course Stillwatter it should mean ZipaBox 1

And yes you can use it as slave but therefore you have to buy at least one of the newer controllers. And here are a lot of people as users of the first hour and they have just a ZipaBox 1 and this device is outdated with v3.

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Zipato v3 has just came out. Existing users don't have to rush in before they are sure they want to migrate. Migration is not mandatory for any of existing users, but new users won't be able to create their systems in current Zipato (v2) anymore.

Through the following months we will publish various docs and tutorials about how to use v3 so everything will be much more transparent.

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You're right about that Sebastian: "do not scream before you pain" (French saying).

But I'm waiting to see ...

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Still no answer on will our Pro Licence's be transferable to V3?

I have paid for three Pro licence's for a Zipabox 1, a Zipabox 2, and a Zipatile 1.

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"Through the following months....", is everything here really this slow? Simple things are taking months....

I'm new to Zipato, just been using it for couple of months. I should have obviously investigated more before buying. First I wondered after installing mobile app that it has been updated last time 2018. Then I started reading these post and saw all the trouble reported. But I also saw Zipato commenting that updates are coming, so I was hopeful. I don't have much devices, not much rules yet, so I though "ok, I'll wait for v3"

Now, I see Sebastian, who I believe is from Zipato commenting that V3 is out. Well, one could think it is announced somehow, email sent to customers, or at least put to news page as announcement, but no, there is nothing.

Has anyone else been wondering why in News page there is nothing? I thought first that I have issues with filtering, but what ever I do, there still nothing.

Ok, I still I thought I can wait...

But now this after V3 is supposedly out, it takes "months" to push tutorials, and instructions. I don't know what to say....

New to Zipato, but this seem to be slowest and most non-customer oriented company I have ever run in to.

I can only imagine how frustrated you guys are if you have but years and loads of money to your Zipato rules, and this is service you get.

I don't know if I'm patient enough to wait "months". New to z-wave and I have energy to play with little I have every day . I can't wait for months.......

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That is a good question about the licenses. Are all pro licenses still available when i moving to v3? Sebastian Popovic can you still give us a response ?

Thanks

Regards André

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Users bought a pro license for a controller (box or and tile) right?


So... Migrating to V3, license should stay with controller.


Buying new Zipabox/Tile2 as addition would require new pro license.


As I see it.......

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Here is precisely my biggest question/issue.

I have a Zipabox v1. I can eventually understand that this is too old hardware not able to support Zipato V3 with new features that will not be available on v2. Like when you want new iOS features on your iPhone but need to buy a newer one after 4 or 5 years because hardware is not powerful enough to support it.

But the potential big problem is if I buy a new hardware (Zipabox V2) will I keep all features/licences (I had on v1) on the new Zipabox v2 ?? When I buy a new iPhone I keep all applications I already bought since several years without having to buy those apps again ....

If Sebastian can confirm I will keep all my licenses on the new Zipabox, then I will probably buy one Zipabox V2 + Zwave module this week end for black Friday. If I have to buy again all licences I wont ...

Sebastian, could you clarify this point asap ?

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We have a technical issue with migrating licenses and we still don't know how to do it, but we are considering few options now and we may have some solution next week.

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Hi Sebastian,


I just bought a Zipamicro last week and registered it on my.zipato.com (v2) with one radiator thermostat. As I see, it does not make any sense to stay on v2 with my new system, so I would move stright away to v3. Is this possible? I tried to download the new Android App but in Google Play I only find the old one (my localization is Austria). How can I use v3?


Thnaks,

Zoltan

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Thanks! That worked.

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Anyone moved from V2 to v3?

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Just did it..

It seems to be that all devices are still available, but rules (as stated) are empty and also all rooms and scenes are empty.

But it is still possible to use the rules, rooms and scenes from V2.. so, everything in the V2 world is still available and it seems to be that it´s possible to migrate step by step without a "big bang"..


edit: all virtual devices are also lost! and I can´t find any security (alarm) settings

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Did /do you have combo of box and tile?

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No, I have just a Zipatile 1

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@Tumo

How that work? I read that is necessary to unregister the box under V2.

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i can only add one device Box/Tile... box cannot be the sever only zipatile, adding secondary didnt work.

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I don´t know why it works, but it seems to work

Attached the overview of my V2 portal and of the new V3 portal


BTW: I don´t see any differences in functionality and frontend. Nearly everything is the same as before.

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Thanks for the images. im gona try a little harder....

Or will have to wait till they alow the secondary controler.

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Ah OK, I tried it too, it works. That would be an acceptable solution, a move step by step, rule by rule. I could live with that.

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Yes, that´s acceptable for me too.

But I still do not understand why it´s possible to migrate alle devices, but not the virtual devices, scenes and rooms..

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I will try now to migrate some simple rules to V3 and deactivate them on V2 and see if it´s running

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Not even close to acceptable

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After I created a rule under V3, all rules under V2 didn't work anymore. :-(

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this makes sense, because rules are executed locally on zipabox and cannot mix from two environments. I suppose, when you synchronize, all rules from v3 cloud are copied to zipabox. try to sync in v2

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Good idea but it didn't work.

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Yes, I also found out that the rules in V2 will not longer work after V3 was activated.

Then I started the migrate my rules but it seems to be that there is a big bug in the scheduler in the rules. I can configure the scheduler, set a time, astro etc. but itßs not saved. After I re-open the rule the scheduler is empty, see attched screenshot.

Nearly all my rules are based on scheduler functions. So, V3 is useless for me at the moment!

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Re-created scenes are also not working. They just don´t start.

I created a ticket for both topics (scheduler and scenes). For the moment V3 is not usable!!

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Are you kidding Zipato ??

Tried to move on the v3, and every virtual sensor; parameters; rooms; are gone..

Even the virtual alarm !!

And when I tried to set a new one : error trying to create a secured session !

Now; I'm without an alarm in my house.

Correct this ASAP !!!

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I had the same problem with the alarm. It seems to be that your personal PIN code will be resetted to 0000.

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Nope... I tried; and still the same error :/

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Default Master PIN code is 0000. I never heard about "re-creation" process in Zipato. I don't know what does it mean and how it works.

If you migrate the controller to v3 and migrate the same controller back to v2, you should start from scratch all over again. Any other action is on your own responsibility. And YES, I know many things will work when you get back to v2, but we never tested them and we can't help you if some of them are not working. That's why we recommend setting up the system from scratch, and if you are not willing to do so, then just don't migrate yet.

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I have the same question.))

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I have a Zipabox Duo with security module and consider to buy a Zipatile and migrate to v3 but keep the zipabox in slave mode for the wired alarm. Is there any drawbacks with this setup compared to a new Zipabox 2? For instance will the alarm work if the master controller goes down?

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Alarm will run on Master, as well as all the other logic. If Master dies, you will lose the alarm, although you will be alerted by the Cloud in that case.

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Thanks! So if I power the Zipatile from the Security module or a UPS the alarm should still work during a power black-out?

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Yes, Alarm is running locally on Master.

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Hello. there is no widget for the new application? Thank you.

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I project to buy a zipamicro. But before making this purchase somebody can explain if zipamicro can be used as master with new v3 ?

Thanks for your help

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Yes, I have a zipamicro and it works.

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But Stefan (which work in Zipato) said me it was not possible to use it as master !!!

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That was then a mistake. This affects only zipabox 1, the zipamicro works as master.

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Yes, Zipamicro can be used as Master. Although, I would rather choose Zipabox2 or Zipatile2 to be Master in my system.

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@Sebastian

Can you explain to me why? The hardware of the zipamicro seems to have the same performance as the zipabox2. What is the difference between Master and Slave?

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Zipabox is much higher quality electronic device than Zipamicro. Considering the fact that my whole System depends on that device I would prefer the more quality one. However, both will do the job.

Master is the main server, everything is done on it, just like when you have only one server in your system. Slaves are only acting as repeaters, enabling connection of more devices based on different protocols.

Compering to Cluster, Multi-Server System is more straight forward in relation between Master and Slaves, thus the whole System functionality will be less affected by any network glitches and more reliable.

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Exactly what should be the new features in v3?

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@Sebastian

Is it already possible to connect Alexa to V3? My problem is that I created a Rule under V3 and all my Rules under V2 stopped working. So I had to start with the migration of all 290 Rules and some of them are started via Alexa.

Do you also have an information when it will possible to see the devices under rooms in the new app?

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I would recommend to NOT migrate to V3 at the moment.

As I stated there are at least two major bugs which makes it impossible to work with it.

1. Scheduler in rules does not work. If you configure a scheduler and save it, it´s not saved and the scheduler is empty

2. Scenes does not work. After re-creating the scenes they does not work.


For both topics a already created tickets, bit no response so far.

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tomu

Please inform about the changes.

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It seems a jump back in time when everithing was in beta...

So sad :(

And anyway all missing thing from my post will never be available for me (that own a zipabox 1) as promised years ago...

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@AP

please tell me, when changing from v2 to v3 are all Pro licenses available?

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Still when downloading the new app and explained we can read that we should start from scratch.

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@Andre

The pro license is not available

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Could Participants who have switched to version 3, put together a short documentation on the procedure? That would be nice.

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Paid by zipato ??

No, do not do the same error than us : don't go to v3...

I'm opening multiple case now... basically, nothing is working now... neither the rules (but that we were aware); not the new rules with a scheduler; or room; or scene; or alarm; or ....

In fact, they should better said what could potentially worked after the migration; it could be shorter....

I'm very pissed of.

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And now; i see that virtual device doesn't work...

impossible to make a simple rule to shut down a light or a roller.....

And that should be a "simple way to control everything" as it is said in the new application ?

Application that is not providing a single view of something by the way...... after recreating every room and asigning the device to them (what a pain by the way....) nothing is visible in the application....

Impossible to add user to the new virtual alarm that i had to recreate ....

nothing; simply nothing is working now !!!

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not paid from zipato, it is just for me, to update to v3. what have to do first?

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Ok more explanation : the virtual switchs are working : it's the group of device that are not working...


To stefan : the steps are simple : go to https://my3.zipato.com/zipato-web/app2dashboard

then you enter your serial number, you wait 2 minutes; and after; nothing will be up again !

And when i say nothing, it's really nothing....

You have to recreat everything; virtual alarm, virtual switch, attribute, rooms, and for sure, you will be pissed of...

Because even if you have patience to recreate everything, even, you will encounter some bugs that unallowed you yo do the same thing than previously.

And for what gain ?? the new phone application is a mess; ,nothing is working even there...

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@Moratti

Your comments are total mess and completely useless. I don't know why did you try the migration after we clearly said that migration is not enabled and you are now writing these ridiculous posts here.

If nothing would work in the new app we wouldn't publish it yet. So you probably think that we are all stupid here and you are obviously very smart.

Zipato v3 and the new app are just being published and are intend to be used for building new Systems from scratch. Besides that, both are just published and it's reasonable to expect some issues at the beginning. That's why we didn't recommend migration of big and complex system at this time. Hopefully you can understand that.

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Sure, your migration path is the smartest never seen elsewhere.

You dont know why we are doing this migration ? because that's around 1 year that you did not improved your product, that you did not correct the issues you've got before, only saying : it will be done next release... it will be corrected next version .... search around the ticket i've created to your support if you dont agree.

Now, for around 3 weeks, my rules where not working at all : searching around shows me that the variable that i always used before were totally messy... ${variables.get("power")} ...

Rebuild to rebuild, i thaught i could start from scratch on a long awainted new system... worse idea ever.

My ridiculous post is in line with your ridiculous development, and reaction...

Tell me what's wrong with my declaration of bug and I will appologie...

So far :

- the virtual device are lost

- the alarm, even recreated, cannot be used : we can't define any user to it.

- the room are lost, we had to recreat them and associate every device to them.... around .... 2 hours for me....

- the soft phone application is showing no device in the room... it's totaly useless... only the alarm and the virtual switch recreated are visible

- are the scene and the scheduler in rule working ?

Hopefully you can understand that we are pissed of.

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By the way... I cannot create new variable... but perhaps it's me...

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I think.. It´s in beta status, so we can´t really complain that the system is not working because it´s not officially released.

I´m a user who often try beta software. In most cases there are some errors or some functions which are not work at all. In this case of V3 Ißm reallly disappointed that some basic functions are not working, like the scheduler in the rules. I guess more than 80% of all rules are using a scheduler. So that is something which should also work an a beta version.

In a previous post I stated that scenes are not working. I nthe meantime I found out that scenes are working but only when you execute them via the web frontend. They are not sychronized to Zipatile and therefore I can´t use it from Zipatile. The same problem, that some parts of the system are not sychronized, is also for some devices (like rollershutter or cameras).

I hope that it will be fixed soon! At least for the not working scheduler someone from support stated that it will be fixed early next week. I hope so because without scheduler I need to do a lot of manual work every morning and afternoon...

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Sebastian said from the beginning don't rush into things for existing users.


And start from scratch....


Don't make it all negative.... Read before executing.

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Than I have buy all licences again? I hope that's not true and a bad joke. I have spent a lot of money and have almost all licenses


@Zipato can you comment on that?


When it's true, will the V2 further developed and supported?

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Back to the original topic, is it possible to have an update?

  • Alexa in Italian (has been promised the publishing on Italian store with current config) -> no answer yet
  • Alexa v3-> no answer yet
  • Gooogle home-> no answer yet
  • New Mobile APP (presented at last CES, and to it is also related some fix of current app ...) -> released but works only with v3 (funny, v3 did not existed at past CES), so bugs raised on the old one will never be fixed for me ...

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Себастьян.

Я повторю вопрос.

1 - Если я установил «zipatile 1» в качестве сервера, то я могу изменить сервер на «zipatile 2» и назначить «zipatile 1».

2- Будет ли доступен протокол MQTT при переходе на v3 (zipatile1)?

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I can provide an update after one week on V3 with Zipatile 1.

In general I can now use V3 as before V2. The schuduler bug was fixed in the last days, so all my rules are owkring again as before.

There is only one feature I canßt use with V3 which was wokring in V2: it is not possible to use scenes directly from the Zipatile, because they are not sychronized to the Zipatile. It works with the new app and via the web portal, but not in Zipatile 1. I used them as "shortcuts" on the dashboard of Zipatile. So, thats the only thing I miss at the moment.

Another issue is that not all devices are available on the new app. According to Zipato they will be available step by step. But that is someting I can live with.

Also for user who used the API need to change all the API requests. I used them as a backup for the sunrise/sunset in Zipato from IFTTT and set some virtual meters. After I changed the API requests it was woring as before. But you need to keep that in mind if you want ot upgrade.

What´s still not clear for me: Is it possible to install the new Android app on Zipatile 1? If that is possible, then it would also be possible to use the scenes. I will have no answer from Zipato for that.


Summary: It works for me nearly as before, but I also do not see any advantages in comparison to V2. Maybe that is something for the future, but at the moment there are not more features available than in V2.

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I cannot confirm the fact that the scheduler is working again. All my scheduler don't work yet.

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It seems that I can now save the scheduler from a rule...

I will check if the sunset/sunrise will work....

And how did you manage to make your alarm working ? (secure partition...)

I cannot add a user on it; neither use the zipato RIFD reader.

And i confirm that the new APP is worse than before... empty from device, only good thing is that you can now enable or disable a rule from the phone.

And do you use variable in your rules ? while for me it's impossible.

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Hi, about new app on Zipatile1, here is the zipato team's answer that I got to my ticket:

"currently application for Zipatile1 in under development, so momentarily it's best to use it only as a server. As soon as it comes you will be able to update it via AppRepo.


Thank you for your patience."

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