Update on new (and long awaited) new features

Carlo shared this question 28 days ago
Need Answer

Hello Zipato team, can you kindly update the whole community about new features that are being promised from a long time and for which all previous deadlines had been missed?

Features:

  • Alexa in Italian (has been promised the publishing on Italian store with current config)
  • Alexa v3
  • Gooogle home
  • New Mobile APP (presented at last CES, and to it is also related some fix of current app ...)

Thanks in advance.

Comments (7)

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News?

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When will the app published?

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You forgot Netatmo Support ;-)

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Pretty sure we dont get any update this year.

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LOL.


Updates from zipato? Forget it.


And anyway, every timeline (when rarely declared) is systematically disregarded.. so don't expect anything at a certain date.. because you wouldn't get it (and this explain why they rarely declare a timeline for features..).


Google home integration was promised to be released at september ends..

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Here is the update.

For the last 2 years we were working on the new Zipato backend (v3), new Zipato APP for both iOS and Android (no, that's not the iOS one which we started to work on 3 years ago), new Zipabox2 which should replace both Zipabox1 and ZIpamicro and Zipatile2 which will bring Zipatile1 on to the next level of technical and design performance.

It is obvious that these are replacements for all our products so it was like creating an new Zipato, except that we were having bunch of code running and significant experience from running previous Zipato before. But still, this was a huge job and it took us much longer than we planned initially. This was also the reason why some promised improvements of the existing platform were not published and even worse, we were having more then regular cloud outages.

Anyway, we are on our way out now and this is the current status of projects mentioned above:

  • Zipato v3 is currently up and running in some early beta stage. We are planning to release it by the end of this month.
    The main difference is that v3 is based on Systems which users will have to create first and then register their controller(s) within these particular Systems. All details, will be published soon within the new knowledge base section on this portal.
  • New Zipato mobile App will be published for both Android and iOS this month together with Zipato v3 since the new App will only work with Zipato v3. Yes, this means that you won't be able to use the new App with your existing installations, but you will have to create new Systems in Zipato v3 environment:-( I know this is a hassle, but that will result with much less hassle in the future maintenance of these systems and hopefully bigger customer satisfaction at the end. Although migration is not possible automatically, and new Systems will have to be created manually (including rules, scenes and virtual devices), it will be possible to unregister existing controllers from the existing platform and register them within a new Systems so it won't be necessary to pari all devices again.
    New mobile app will practically replace both current mobile apps and web app since it has all configuration options available inside. Only rule creator will stay as web application from obvious design reasons. We are quite excited about the architecture of the new mobile app and we believe it will be very competitive smart home solution.
  • Zipabox2 is already on the market. It is way stronger than Zipabox1, it has backup battery inside, WiFi and additional USB port. However, it doesn't have Z-wave build in the main unit. Z-wave is not an additional expansion module just like all the other supported radio modules. This way, users can buy only the main unit and attach only the radio module(s) which they really use.
  • Zipatile2 was a huge project. We designed completely new device based on the same concept as it is Zipatile1. We were using the experience which we gained with Zipatile1 and we made a better looking and more reliable home server. However, production of Zipatile2 got stuck due to issues with production of the metal mid frame. It is very big and complex and the production goes too slow. That's why we had to engage more production lines and each one is taking months for setting up. Meanwhile we have decided to sell them only for large projects which were already in queue for delivery and we will start selling them online once after we start receiving midframes from new production lines. We expect that this will happen in this December.

Regarding some general improvements, we are planning to finally release Google Assistant integration by the end of this year, as well as support for Amazon Alexa v3 API (meanwhile the current integration is fully functional).

Hopefully this update will help you to better understand what is going on here and what we are planning to do. There will be many more upgrades once after we finally migrate to these new products completely as we will certainly be more efficient then.

Meanwhile. I wish to thank you for your patience and support. I hope we will continue improving the new platform together and make it to be as good as we all want it to be.

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Let's wait till the end of November and see...

Regarding Alexa it's not yet published in Italian store, in May you said that if v3 had took too much time the app would had been published on Italian store as it is but that never happened (and 6 months has passed).

Another concern that I have is related to the new app, because the old one got some new bug (probably due to server side update) and support said that the fix will be released in the new app...

... but the new app will require a new backend and this make no sense at all.

A final question come to my mind: the new v3 architecture will also have a new pricing model?

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I hope this is a bad joke. I have over 260 Rules, more than 150devices + 100 virtual devices. I need a week vacation to do this. I will never do this. What is the alternative? Stay at the old platform without any updates in the future?

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I hope its a bad joke. This is terrible to do this.... I have finished my system for a few days. Thats too much work...

Or can Zipato take a Backup and generate a new Backup for the new Zipato V3. I have never heard from a system that have no translator for a a new platform....

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Perfect zipato style.


No problems for new customers. Existing customers will have to suffer pains to migrate to a new system with a migration that can fail (and then a re-including process will be mandatory), an entire set of rule that will have to be rebuilt from the scratch; this obviously mean COSTS on customers that are unable to operate in "DIY mode", that requiring a professional (and time costs for others).


Any rule in the system is built with a JSON file and a java class.. and you don't foresee a automatic migration?


And what you expect to do if your customers will refuse to accept to rebuilt their systems and mantain the old system? you will have to mantein two systems, old and new (or at least mantain a wrapper that you need to update everytime you have to update the new system, doubling your work). Only god know what can happen.


Let me to say that it's not "an hassle". An big hassle is a cloud outage for mantainance (when you have to disarm your alarm, as example)

I'm without words. This is a lot lot lot worse.

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Hi Sebastian,

You talk all the time about Zipabox2 and Zipatile2, but... What about Zipabox1?, Can Zipabox1 upgrade to V3?, and, Will we continue having support if we don't upgrade it?

You said "it won't be necessary to pari all devices again.". Do you mean we don't have to pair the devices, and we "only" have to re-create rules and scenes?

And what about virtual alarms,... Do you have to re-create it?

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I will not be migrating my 250+ rules. I will simply switch to a different platform when the time comes. That's beyond unacceptable.

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It's odd to see companies make this mistake again and again. When your customers cannot easily move to another platform but have easy migration to new versions of your platform, you have "lock-in". When you make migrating to a new version of your own platform just as hard as moving to a different one, you release all your existing customers from lock-in. Commercially, that's insane.

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I agree.

If I have to redo everything, I prefer to change the system.

So much year galley to have to do everything again, and not knowing what the new system is worth? It's a risk that I will not take with zipato ...

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I agree too.

I have read it several times, and I'm afraid they are trying to sell us the new Zipabox2 or Zipatile2.

I don't like what I'm reading..."Zipabox2",..."Zipabox2"..."Zipabox2"... and WHAT ABOUT ZIPABOX1 CUSTOMERS?

And I don't know if my Zipabox1 has any future or if it is a dead product.

I like my Zipabox1 and I was happy with it, but I don't like what I'm reading.

Customers are an active for any company, but for Zipato...

I bought a Zipabox, 433Mhz module, backup module, Zipato 3g dongle, 2 zipato rfid keypad, plenty of sensor installed, siren, etc. And I was thinking about buying the zigbee module.

I thougth I was a good customer, and now I feel Zipato is leaving me laid on the floor.

Zipato makes me change my system, and They expect I will do it to another Zipato.

This forum is getting full of negative opinions. I think today, opinions are very important for new customer.

Does Zipato expect to increase sales treating their customers this way?

I think Zipato has to look for solutions for its customer, to ease the migration.

Of course trying to improve a way to migrate, but if it wasn't possible, looking for alternatives...

An option could be to give as the possibility of make a backup (without cost) and use it if the V3 does not work as we expect.

Or the possibility to keep the current system while we configure the V3. And enable or disable one or the other while we are testing or migrating.

And finally if there are people who can't change, keep the current version, but with the possibility of managing the controller locally. And the V3 with cloud support for new installations.

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Hi,

I am sorry to say but i think that Zipabox 1 is, more or less, end of life. I have bought that box +/- 6 years ago and all these years it was doing its thing. But it has limited memory and no way to change that. So it was just a matter of time that this memory was becoming a serious bottleneck. So it is up to Zipato what to decide what to do with it. To bring much more features to this box is almost impossible because of this memory limit. The most probable thing is to froze the thing in specs. And that is not what you like. Months ago i have bought a new box, because the old one broke down. But hey: 200 / 6 = 30 Eur per year is cheap for this hardware (at least i think so) and all the old extensions (Zigbee, 433) still works. And yes I am a very happy customer.

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John,I don't doubt the capabilities of the Zipabox 2. I'm happy to buy one. But if I'm going to be forced to reimplement a very complex system from scratch, why wouldn't I consider other platforms, since the effort involved is going to be fairly similar? It's inexplicable to me that automatic migration is not factoring into planning from day one. You're throwing away the hold you have on existing customers.

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Hi John, sorry but I don't agree

I bought my Zipabox 3 years ago, backup module 2 years, and the 433Mhz module this year. They can't let it die when there are still devices for sale in the market.

Zipabox 1 is not the newest box, but it works fine, and there are many systems that can be managed correctly with it.

Scheduled obsolescence??

I have and older and less powerfull VERA_Lite, and its firmware is updated.

I have and old IPhone 4, and its firmware is updated, and old mac laptop, and its firmware is updated. Because there are companies that care for customers.

Obviously, I can't pretend to run 4k or use 5G with my iPhone 4, but it can work correctly updated and do many things with it.

With my VeraLite is the same, I can't pretend to do all thing I could do with a VeraPlus, but it can still manage many system correctly with the newest firmware.

May be Zipabox1 is not the newset one, but is usefull for many systems like mine. 40 sensor and 20 rules can be manage with it without any problem.

If I have to change, I won't do it for a Zipabox2+Zwave module, too expensive and too insecurity in the medium term. How knows if in two years they decide to implement V4 only in a newest "Zipabox3"?

Now I'm starting to regret when I decide to change my old system from Vera to Zipato. Product is good enought, but service...

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Hi @David,

Sometimes it's better to start from scratch again. Begin this year my old box (zp1) broke down. The backup facility was lousy because i couldnot transfer a backup form ZP1 to ZP2. So I had the same thoughts. Transfer to another system or stay to start all over again. I did in the past tests with some others: Vera, Homey to name a few. But they all had, like Zipato, their limitations. So i decided to stay at Zipato but did something additional: bought a Raspberry PI and installed Openhab2 on it. Both systems are running parallel now. If Zipabox fails the other one takes over and vice versa. Writing my rules all over again did reduce the number quite some bit and also reduced the number of virtual devices. Nowaday i am happy the complete configuration is running smoothly and doing all what i need. With my openhab mobile i can speak with my devices (google). But that is a thing i don't rely on. And the best thing if i ever, ever decide to switch to another system it is easy to implement.

Bottom line is that after all these years i don't believe in 1 single system. There is always some limitation

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I'm interested about openhab running in parallel. You mean you added openhab (with a Zwave stick) as secondary controller able to control all the Zwave devices under zipabox? Can you give more details about?

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@Simone

I use a Raspberry pi 3B+ with zwave usb-stick from Vision. Software: Openhab, Mosquitto (MQTT broker) and to come: a Zigbee stick

Zwave Zipabox is primary and yes: Openhab is secondary controller: works great. No problems whatsoever. I always have the possibilty to make Openhab the primary and zipabox a secondary controller.

I use MQTT for talking to the 433MHz and Zigbee and virtual devices. To be completely independent i am going to use a Zigbee stick for the Zigbee devices. The 433 MHz devices here are not important and will be obsolete soon.

From Openhab I can control any Zipabox device.

If you have more questions feel free to ask

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Ok, so I correctly understood.


If you can provide me more details about placing openhab as secondary controller I'll be happy (I have in mind to try with home assistant too).


I'll probably going to use an rpi4, where I plan to run also shinobi (security camera recording like zoneminder).


What's the medium cpu load with openhab?

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Others may have the time to implement and maintain two parallel home automation systems - not me

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I have a phone that does not work all the time. So I have a second when the first one does not work. But I'm really happy with my first phone ... I do not know what to say ...

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That's hardly comparable. Phones are not home automation systems with hundreds of rules and devices.

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oh well ... I started migrating to Home Assistant. It's a lot cheaper, more stable and a lot more flexible. I already have a very fancy alarm system, google assistant and sonos integration ready. Took one day of setting up the software and doing some tinkering. Steep but do-able learning curve. Bye Bye Zipabox.

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@ John

I am quite experienced in using Zipato but bloody newbee in anything like Http-requests, using IFTTT and also in adding a secondary controller. But I am searching for a long while for a possibility to add devices, which are not supported by Zipato (e.g. io homecontrol) which will be possible via rpi. So I am highly interested how you implemented a rpi as a secondary controller. Especially as I can use it obviously as a back-up controller and on top I can train my ability to program rules via rpi (just in case I want to get fully independent from Zipato ;-) )

Could you imagine to give me advice in detail?

Best Regards

Bernd

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@Bend,

Sorry for being so late in my response but I was occupied with other things. Adding a rpi as secondary controller is not that difficult. First of all you need (of course) a raspberry with some memory ( i use a model 3B+ and 16 gB sd card) 3B+ has wifi and bluetooth, quite handy for me. 16 gB is more then enough (or 32 gB). At this moment I have 2-3 gB in use. Most of the opensource stuff (openhab, home assistent, domoticz) are offering a sd image for download. Very usefull. I have selected Openhab because of the very, very large forum users. In the forum there is always someone with the right answer. Besides that Openhab on the sd-image comes with a nice configuration utility to add additional components (i.e. NodeRed, Mosquitto (MQTT), Influxdb + grafana (graphics) etc)

First level of integration is to simply use MQTT. Zipabox and Openhab can communicate using that protocol. Just install Mosquitto (see above). In Zipato define the MQTT server. Now every item with an UUID) talks to the MQTT server. In openhab define a MQTT-thing and proper channel. and you can work with that zipato item from openhab. And the otherway is also possible: In openhab define a thing (homecontrol?) in Zipato define something virtual. And in the same way the items are communicating.

For now: i have to go. Questions, please ask. However it can take some time for an answer because lately i visit this forum +/- once a week.

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Do not misunderstand my words and my interest in a secondary controller.

I'm not justifying the zipato approach, absolutely (check my first post in this thread).


I think that a new backend and frontend without a totay trasparent (or anyway with limited user effort) migration is a commercial suicide.


Only users with few rules can accept to rebuild all the rules from the scratch. All the others will follow two roads: leaving zipato or stay with old system.


I hope that zipato are going to offer, at least, a free backup to help who want to try to migrate.. In case of something go bad