"Cluster" - questions
I am trying to find out if creating a Cluster between a Zipatile and a Zipabox is recommended/relevant, and what is to gain if I do so.
I have connected everyting related to security/burglary/alarm etc to the Zipabox which has a battery and a 3G stick, and everything related to lights etc to the Zipatile. I can control devices residing on one controller from rules on the other, by using Virtual devices, if necessary.
As I have not yet played around with cluster and thus no experience, I turn to the Community for advice :-)
Q1: Will I need one Pro license per device, i.e. shell out EUR99 x 2 to connect two devices together to work as one, or do I only need to purchase Pro once?
Q2: If multiple Pro licenses are required, and features I'd like to have are added more than one year from now, will I have to purchase a new Pro Licenses for a year for each controller in the Cluster, in order to add the new feature?
Q3: Will the devices in the cluster communicate locally when both are on the same LAN, or do they require external connectivity to communicate?
Q4: Which are, in the Community's opinion, the best arguments for establishing a cluster between two controllers or more in the same house (except for the obvious extended Z-wave range, if controllers are placed at a distance)
The same question
Interesting questions, as I thought about mounting an iPad to the wall (running only the Zipato app) as a touch controller alternative.
Interesting questions, as I thought about mounting an iPad to the wall (running only the Zipato app) as a touch controller alternative.
Hello Robert,
This is a good topic, and I'm sure many users wonder the same thing. I have one zipabox connected to all my devices (same reason, battery backup and 3g, zipatile battery is a joke) and two Zipatiles that right know are used as dumb terminals for zipabox accross the house. I have PRO licence but haven't created a cluster, early posts in the community showed quite a few problems with cluster functionality and Zipato stated that cluster should only be attempted on new installations (I think because of the problems it was creating) so I decided to wait until backup functionality is released first, then try it.
A1: YES. I don't like Zipato's licence policy since it created PRO/smart, in my opinion it was much more functional to have the option of buying each protocol required or all of them, there are very few users in this community that use that many protocols. Also I just recently learned (I even opened a ticket to zipato support) that PRO licence is per controller and per USER (if my wife logs to my controllers with his account she cannot use PRO features), to me this doesn't make any sense, and looks like a decision based on money making. I think the licence at least should have to be per controller, its like if every person to fully use Office in your computer would have to pay for it, even though is the same device, and same software.
A2: YES. If you would like to stay current that will cost you $198 per year, per user (if you want all users to have PRO functionality). Quite expensive if you ask me, for let's say 2 or 3 new features per year?
A3: NO. Cluster is a virtual controller that resides on Zipato Cloud, basically after creating the cluster you have to migrate your "general" rules to the cluster (will live on the cloud) and if you loose internet, bye bye cluster and rules. I was thinking about that the other day and I think we would have to make an internet detector rule in order to enable local rules when cluster is down. And no, I wouldn't trust any important rule in the cluster.
A4: That is a good question, to this point (without testing the cluster), it is only the hability of using the built in sensors/gestures/buttons in the zipatiles as part of my home automation. Also could be sharing the load of rules, which can also be achieved as you have it or as I do it, using interlocks between them (numerical messages back and forth). Maybe also the local voice feature (that is not operational yet) on zipatiles, which will give a TTS option to send feedback to the user, i.e. "system failed to arm, etc."
I wouldn't call this "extended zwave range", since you basically will have multiple z-wave networks interacting through internet. There is an option that even zipato has claimed to have on community but I haven't been able to enable and zipato haven't responded me of how to do it since quite a few weeks now is adding a controller as secondary controller in the network, like being a "slave" in the same network and act as a network repeater to all nodes. tecnically you could nativelly control devices from both controllers. However this is just speculation since I haven't been able to add the zipatile to zipabox network or viceversa.
Hello Robert,
This is a good topic, and I'm sure many users wonder the same thing. I have one zipabox connected to all my devices (same reason, battery backup and 3g, zipatile battery is a joke) and two Zipatiles that right know are used as dumb terminals for zipabox accross the house. I have PRO licence but haven't created a cluster, early posts in the community showed quite a few problems with cluster functionality and Zipato stated that cluster should only be attempted on new installations (I think because of the problems it was creating) so I decided to wait until backup functionality is released first, then try it.
A1: YES. I don't like Zipato's licence policy since it created PRO/smart, in my opinion it was much more functional to have the option of buying each protocol required or all of them, there are very few users in this community that use that many protocols. Also I just recently learned (I even opened a ticket to zipato support) that PRO licence is per controller and per USER (if my wife logs to my controllers with his account she cannot use PRO features), to me this doesn't make any sense, and looks like a decision based on money making. I think the licence at least should have to be per controller, its like if every person to fully use Office in your computer would have to pay for it, even though is the same device, and same software.
A2: YES. If you would like to stay current that will cost you $198 per year, per user (if you want all users to have PRO functionality). Quite expensive if you ask me, for let's say 2 or 3 new features per year?
A3: NO. Cluster is a virtual controller that resides on Zipato Cloud, basically after creating the cluster you have to migrate your "general" rules to the cluster (will live on the cloud) and if you loose internet, bye bye cluster and rules. I was thinking about that the other day and I think we would have to make an internet detector rule in order to enable local rules when cluster is down. And no, I wouldn't trust any important rule in the cluster.
A4: That is a good question, to this point (without testing the cluster), it is only the hability of using the built in sensors/gestures/buttons in the zipatiles as part of my home automation. Also could be sharing the load of rules, which can also be achieved as you have it or as I do it, using interlocks between them (numerical messages back and forth). Maybe also the local voice feature (that is not operational yet) on zipatiles, which will give a TTS option to send feedback to the user, i.e. "system failed to arm, etc."
I wouldn't call this "extended zwave range", since you basically will have multiple z-wave networks interacting through internet. There is an option that even zipato has claimed to have on community but I haven't been able to enable and zipato haven't responded me of how to do it since quite a few weeks now is adding a controller as secondary controller in the network, like being a "slave" in the same network and act as a network repeater to all nodes. tecnically you could nativelly control devices from both controllers. However this is just speculation since I haven't been able to add the zipatile to zipabox network or viceversa.
Hi Robert, good question and some good answers, so heres mine. Yes I think it is worth it.
Everyone has a different opinion, even myself I am not 100% sold on the pro licence cost per controller. But I look at it this way.
1. You dont need a Zipatile with pro to use your system. Just think of the Zipatile as a wall tablet like any other. Only cheaper, comes with a wall mount, multiple sensors, and touch buttons. So in fact it is already better value. But if you want the added benefits of SIP, and variables, sensors all shown on the once cluster device without the need of http commands or virtual sensors/devices, then buy the pro licence. the pro licence is aimed at exactly that, professionals. Integrators who want more than one controller to spread the work load, who want a more advanced system, who are spending big money on installations. People that need more support than a community, Zipato support.
Think of it this way, the basic controllers are like buying a bottom of the range BMW, the Pro is aimed at the M series buyers. You pay more, you get better service and products.
2. Yes, if in a years time and your pro licence has run out, you need to purchase again for new features if you need them. But all the services provided to you during this one year period, stay yours for life. Think of it as supporting Zipato to create new supported devices and improve their system. Other companies just ask for a subscription, at least they provide a fairly extensive working system with out one. They need to make a recurring income or they too will fall by the wayside.
3. Controllers in a cluster will work on local connection, as long as the controllers are on the same LAN. Basically a cluster is a virtual controller, that integrates all controllers into one virtual one, this virtual one is now placed on each actual controller. All commands are now done via local http requests. Not to say they cant work via remote either, I have not tried this but I am sure they can also be placed in different locations on different LANs and work as a remote cluster.
4. Why create a cluster? You really dont need to if budget is a concern. Otherwise, mainly to share the load between controllers, have multiple access points and sensors available, Intercom (this in itself is worth the money as you would pay over $100 per tablet for an intercom system) and premium support from Zipato.
While I think per device is a bit high, maybe one $99 first Controller the first then half this for the remaining is fair. But again I look at this as for professionals mainly. Not the average DIY'er, who should be content with just the one controller, you can always go purchase a cheap android tablet, multisensor, wall mount, and double in-wall module.
I know this will upset the people who want things for free or close to, but at the end of the day it is a business that need to generate an income, and the small profit made on a sale of a Zipatile is not enough to support Zipato long term. So please, support Zipato and buy a pro licence and enjoy the system as it should be, dont complain about wanting more for less, thats Vera talk.
Just my opinion, now awaiting yours..........................................
ps didn't know it was per user also, what if the other user is a supervisor? but does make sense, why do other users need the pro features, one user should be enough to enable everything.
Also I thought tenant users were restricted from editing and alarm access is also a right established by the administrator user, at least in my system
Hi Robert, good question and some good answers, so heres mine. Yes I think it is worth it.
Everyone has a different opinion, even myself I am not 100% sold on the pro licence cost per controller. But I look at it this way.
1. You dont need a Zipatile with pro to use your system. Just think of the Zipatile as a wall tablet like any other. Only cheaper, comes with a wall mount, multiple sensors, and touch buttons. So in fact it is already better value. But if you want the added benefits of SIP, and variables, sensors all shown on the once cluster device without the need of http commands or virtual sensors/devices, then buy the pro licence. the pro licence is aimed at exactly that, professionals. Integrators who want more than one controller to spread the work load, who want a more advanced system, who are spending big money on installations. People that need more support than a community, Zipato support.
Think of it this way, the basic controllers are like buying a bottom of the range BMW, the Pro is aimed at the M series buyers. You pay more, you get better service and products.
2. Yes, if in a years time and your pro licence has run out, you need to purchase again for new features if you need them. But all the services provided to you during this one year period, stay yours for life. Think of it as supporting Zipato to create new supported devices and improve their system. Other companies just ask for a subscription, at least they provide a fairly extensive working system with out one. They need to make a recurring income or they too will fall by the wayside.
3. Controllers in a cluster will work on local connection, as long as the controllers are on the same LAN. Basically a cluster is a virtual controller, that integrates all controllers into one virtual one, this virtual one is now placed on each actual controller. All commands are now done via local http requests. Not to say they cant work via remote either, I have not tried this but I am sure they can also be placed in different locations on different LANs and work as a remote cluster.
4. Why create a cluster? You really dont need to if budget is a concern. Otherwise, mainly to share the load between controllers, have multiple access points and sensors available, Intercom (this in itself is worth the money as you would pay over $100 per tablet for an intercom system) and premium support from Zipato.
While I think per device is a bit high, maybe one $99 first Controller the first then half this for the remaining is fair. But again I look at this as for professionals mainly. Not the average DIY'er, who should be content with just the one controller, you can always go purchase a cheap android tablet, multisensor, wall mount, and double in-wall module.
I know this will upset the people who want things for free or close to, but at the end of the day it is a business that need to generate an income, and the small profit made on a sale of a Zipatile is not enough to support Zipato long term. So please, support Zipato and buy a pro licence and enjoy the system as it should be, dont complain about wanting more for less, thats Vera talk.
Just my opinion, now awaiting yours..........................................
ps didn't know it was per user also, what if the other user is a supervisor? but does make sense, why do other users need the pro features, one user should be enough to enable everything.
Also I thought tenant users were restricted from editing and alarm access is also a right established by the administrator user, at least in my system
@Adrian, Have you had a chance to test & verify that rules, alarms etc., on Clusters works cross-controller (same LAN) even without external internet?
@Adrian, Have you had a chance to test & verify that rules, alarms etc., on Clusters works cross-controller (same LAN) even without external internet?
Hi everyone, sorry for the long delay, havent had the time to test this fully.
Good news, now I have and will report on everything thus far.
Bad news, no, cluster does not work without an internet connection.
I tested with one zipabox and 2 zipatiles. Here are some of the results I found. Hopefully we will get some fixes from Zipato to improve the functionality of this awesome controller.
Clusters only works with an internet connection, at least under all test conditions of my 2 clusters (yes I created a second with another controller to double check) In fact if using a Zipatile in the cluster, you cant even control its own devices or onboard relays with out a connection. You can of course log on to the zipatile directly and control it, but not through the cluster.
Another issue I found, is I do not get the local, blue logo, connection. In fact I don't get this with a standard controller and operating via the app on the same LAN. Does anybody else get this anymore?
Whereas if logged on to a zipatile and operating the zipatile via itself, you get the blue logo meaning local connection. As it should it is the same bloody device. But not if controlling via another device.
So cluster does not seem to operate over ip as I thought it did, and was told. This is bad, as before, even if the internet was shut down, you could at least use the Zipatile to deactivate an alarm or switch lights on. Now you will need to switch out of the cluster and onto the zipatile itself. Thankfully this is still possible, as in the web control centre individual controllers are "greyed out" and unaccessible individually. But they are available via the cluster controller so don't worry.
Another thing I brought up with support was the transfer of ownership. I believe if a controller is part of a cluster, all ownership of the controller should be relinquished to the cluster owner. And thus, for example, if a new owner buys a home, they should simply be able to transfer the ownership of the cluster to the new client, and thus all controllers within that cluster. But as it stands I think the controllers have to be individually removed from the cluster, transfer individually and re added to the cluster. I have not fully tested this. But if this is correct, it could mean 1 of 2 things. You may loose devices and rules when removing or re adding controllers. And maybe the cluster ownership can not be transferred and a new cluster will be needed to be created.
So the another benefit of the Pro licence is with the SIP functionality. While this is good, we have just been testing the BRIA app, and this allows us to add a pbx also and operate any SIP intercom (Doorbird) and Handset locally on a LAN connection. So far so good, but i'll keep you updated on the this too.
I also have experienced that if you reset a controller, you loose the pro licence that is associated with it. My understanding is that the pro licence was "attached" to that controller not the owner. So if you do a master reset for a client or new home owner, you loose all the functionality of the pro licence, even if it was purchased yesterday. I am sure a quick email to support would fix this, but awfully inconvenient if you are onsite to setup for the new owners.
I haven't tried a backup snapshot of a cluster yet as I am not sure if this backup feature is working. But will test when it is.
Alberto, i have noticed that the pro licence is and isn't attached to the controller and/or cluster. I have created another user with alarm rights and that user has access to all the pro features in the rules system when logged in to that controller in the web UI, but can not add Pro Licence devices, such as Phillips HUE. At least I am under the impression that varaiable and some operators puzzles are still off limits to non pro users, is this correct?
I think the best solution here would be for Zipato to just have the option to have an Add Device, Zipatile, function that would import all the ip devices on it into another controllers network, just like adding a Doorbird, Sonos, Nest or Hue
If you have anything else you want me to check, let me know and i'll do my best.
Hi everyone, sorry for the long delay, havent had the time to test this fully.
Good news, now I have and will report on everything thus far.
Bad news, no, cluster does not work without an internet connection.
I tested with one zipabox and 2 zipatiles. Here are some of the results I found. Hopefully we will get some fixes from Zipato to improve the functionality of this awesome controller.
Clusters only works with an internet connection, at least under all test conditions of my 2 clusters (yes I created a second with another controller to double check) In fact if using a Zipatile in the cluster, you cant even control its own devices or onboard relays with out a connection. You can of course log on to the zipatile directly and control it, but not through the cluster.
Another issue I found, is I do not get the local, blue logo, connection. In fact I don't get this with a standard controller and operating via the app on the same LAN. Does anybody else get this anymore?
Whereas if logged on to a zipatile and operating the zipatile via itself, you get the blue logo meaning local connection. As it should it is the same bloody device. But not if controlling via another device.
So cluster does not seem to operate over ip as I thought it did, and was told. This is bad, as before, even if the internet was shut down, you could at least use the Zipatile to deactivate an alarm or switch lights on. Now you will need to switch out of the cluster and onto the zipatile itself. Thankfully this is still possible, as in the web control centre individual controllers are "greyed out" and unaccessible individually. But they are available via the cluster controller so don't worry.
Another thing I brought up with support was the transfer of ownership. I believe if a controller is part of a cluster, all ownership of the controller should be relinquished to the cluster owner. And thus, for example, if a new owner buys a home, they should simply be able to transfer the ownership of the cluster to the new client, and thus all controllers within that cluster. But as it stands I think the controllers have to be individually removed from the cluster, transfer individually and re added to the cluster. I have not fully tested this. But if this is correct, it could mean 1 of 2 things. You may loose devices and rules when removing or re adding controllers. And maybe the cluster ownership can not be transferred and a new cluster will be needed to be created.
So the another benefit of the Pro licence is with the SIP functionality. While this is good, we have just been testing the BRIA app, and this allows us to add a pbx also and operate any SIP intercom (Doorbird) and Handset locally on a LAN connection. So far so good, but i'll keep you updated on the this too.
I also have experienced that if you reset a controller, you loose the pro licence that is associated with it. My understanding is that the pro licence was "attached" to that controller not the owner. So if you do a master reset for a client or new home owner, you loose all the functionality of the pro licence, even if it was purchased yesterday. I am sure a quick email to support would fix this, but awfully inconvenient if you are onsite to setup for the new owners.
I haven't tried a backup snapshot of a cluster yet as I am not sure if this backup feature is working. But will test when it is.
Alberto, i have noticed that the pro licence is and isn't attached to the controller and/or cluster. I have created another user with alarm rights and that user has access to all the pro features in the rules system when logged in to that controller in the web UI, but can not add Pro Licence devices, such as Phillips HUE. At least I am under the impression that varaiable and some operators puzzles are still off limits to non pro users, is this correct?
I think the best solution here would be for Zipato to just have the option to have an Add Device, Zipatile, function that would import all the ip devices on it into another controllers network, just like adding a Doorbird, Sonos, Nest or Hue
If you have anything else you want me to check, let me know and i'll do my best.
Replies have been locked on this page!