Cluster vs Backup and Zipabox + Zipatile and the Pro thingie...

Sebastian,

According to what you say, if I'm understanding correctly, basically controllers in clusters won't be part of the same Z-wave network but they would interact through the internet?

This week is over Sebastian, Isn't it?

Still no Cluster.

Es tut sich was.

Läuft aber noch nicht.

Gruß Maik

Another week is gone

Hi Sebastian,

I don't know if I have understood correctly...

In a Multiserver systems. Do I need one Pro license per Master and Slave controllers, or only per Master controllers?

I'm interenting in buying another zipato controller in order to use it as Master in v3 platform, and keep my Zipabox1 with 433Mhz module as an Slave one.

But if I have to buy two licenses I won't buy it. I can't see why to spend in another license for a controller that can not be updated and only be used as an Slave.

Thanks

I think the PRO license should at least cover a certain amount of controllers, there are several of us early supporters who bought a few zipatiles with the promise of getting cluster mode for free, now it looks like it will cost us $100 per controller that we already paid for that purpose...

Unfortunately I just learned from Sebastian that the Pro License has to be paid per controller. That means that the calculation of Jens is absolutely correct.

And milking the customer is exactly what I feel

1. Payment is NOT yearly, but ONE TIME (it is written clearly on our web pages).

Our controllers are all delivered with SMART license which is already full of features and enough for most of our customers. However, there are customers which are willing to create bigger and more advanced installations, so there is a PRO UPGRADE available for 99Euro, which upgrades the controller with an additional set of functions which are available. Once you upgrade the controller, it stays upgraded permanently.

2. Zipatile can't be replaced with cheap or expensive Android tablet. Zipatile is the set of devices which includes (automation controller, motion sensor, IP camera, indoor siren, 4 in1 sensor meter, gesture controller...)

think we all understand that you need to make money and that the pro licence should cost extra.

For old users of the zipabox that you want to sell the zipatile to. This will be really expensive if we would like to keep the zipabox. Example we might want to keep using 433 devices or other expansion modules.

Would it then not be a reasonable to include that possibility for existing zipabox users when they buy a zipatile.

Does not necessary have to be a pro licance. Just the possibility to keep the hardware we did buy from zipato and keep investing in the ecosystem without having to pay 200 additional ontop of the zipatile itself to get then to work together.

Oliver,

You and as many (including myself) bought zipatile while owning a zipabox already on the promise of the cluster function, way back there was not even a clear pay scheme on how this was going to be charged to customers. I bought two zipatiles to use them along my zipabox, early supporters of zipatile where promised to have cluster for free, now It seems I need extra $300 just to make them work as promised. To resume the situation we were misinformed, will be ripped off and also we have been lied about cluster release date over and over... I'm really considering to sell my stuff on ebay and getting a HomeSeer or control 4 controller.

You hit the point.

Promise after promise after promise, ... And endless game. Not only with the Cluster function.

I think you guys summarizes it very well. Just want to add a bit of something;

Quote:

1. 1. Payment is NOT yearly, but ONE TIME (it is written clearly on our web pages). Our controllers are all delivered with SMART license which is already full of features and enough for most of our customers. However, there are customers which are willing to create bigger and more advanced installations, so there is a PRO UPGRADE available for 99Euro, which upgrades the controller with an additional set of functions which are available. Once you upgrade the controller, it stays upgraded permanently.
2. 2. Zipatile can't be replaced with cheap or expensive Android tablet. Zipatile is the set of devices which includes (automation controller, motion sensor, IP camera, indoor siren, 4 in1 sensor meter, gesture controller...)

Sebastian - you are absolutley correct in your statements! However, as always it could be viewed from different angels. I'd like to give perspective to the statements above to emphasize how at least I see it:

1. Payment is NOT yearly, and it is clearly written on the web page.

True, but given the rushed features, the limitations, the promises etc at least my percieved view is that we will need to upgrade the pro licenses on a rather regular basis just to keep the controllers on a good level.

2. Zipatile can't be replaced with cheap or expensive Android tablets.

True, but if the need is to have a control unit working with the zipabox in the way it should be the cost is very high for little value. Therefore it's easy to ignore those features you just mentioned. My own Zipatile stands in a corner at the moment, only a smoke sensor is connected to it for testing (smoke sensor is not even mounted yet). I still run everything through the Zipabox.

Under such circumstances, and I guess that counts for most people having a Zipabox already, it can easily be replaced by a dumb cheap tablet.

Sorry to be harsh but I am really annoyed about this.

What I am currently considering is to scrap the 443MHz network entirely (expensive!) and ditch the Zipabox or simply go to Fibaro or some other competitor. the Pro license as of today is no option!

This saddens me, Zipato has it's flaws but I still kinda like the company, the pragmatic approach to devices and compatibility and the innovation. I just wish you had more QA, kept your promises and ditched the "PRO" setup.

So you are upset about having to pay another 100 euro for the full usage of the Zipatile so you can use your 433 devices with your Zipabox. But are willing to dump all this and pay another 220 euro to buy a Fibaro Lite, which only supports z-wave devices, and not even all z-wave devices on the market?

The Zipatile can be programmed to work with your Zipabox, it just requires a little more work to do so, but if saving 100 euro is not worth the time........

Also, you will find that you need to buy modules such as to use sonos with the Fibaro model anyway.

Now given the Zipatile is 380 euro, plus a 100 pro license = 490 euro. And the cheapest Fibaro Lite is around 220 euro add a tablet (plus wall mount) or a Fibaro swipe (or both as the Zipatile is both) for around 220euro, thats pretty much the same price. And the Zipatile includes all features now. So lets not talk about the Home centre 2 and the addon modules.

All in all the pricing is quite reasonable.

The only thing I would have changed, is make the Zipatile another 50 euro more and only have pro licences. No body would complain then.

Not really. I am not upset over the money, it's not really an issue. But I don't do charity. I want to get fair value for what I invest in. What I am upset over is the business model, the lack of quality assurance and for sure the inconsistency in messages to the consumers.

I don't want to consider changing. I want to stay loyal. I like Zipato and I believe they are doing alot of good things, Still, the issues as stated above makes me more and more fed up.

(ps, you should use 200 euro for the cluster license as each box requires a pro license. I could probably mentally have agreed to one license but two is simply milking the customer!)

true you can buy all those sensors and even a cheap tablet, so if this is the issue do it. Personally I relish the fact the Zipatile will also act as an internal intercom eventually, can cluster relieving the load of the overall system, has swipe capability, 6 touch buttons, oh......and looks damn good.

if the 480 euro is too much buy a raspberry pi and a cheap tablet and fibaro multisensor and 6 button touch switch a humidity sensor a fibaro swipe .......

Look, I understand everyones frustration with the pro licence fee, because at the end of the day we really need it, especially for everyone here as we already have a Zipabox, but the Zipatile does present good value for money at the end of the day, pro licence included. And try and get the same reaction from your friend when they walk in and see a Zipatile on the wall compared to a cheap tablet and a multisensor stuck on the roof. Also everyone has to remember, with the pro licence their are many more features coming out, such as echo & ok google integration that you will get the benefit of with out needing to pay for again. Just dont hold your breathe for these feature anytime soon. ;-)

Yes this features may come out.

I bought the Pro license after buing the Zipatile months ago and still the most of the promised features do not work.

I have to buy the licence again, when the features are not published within a year after purchasing the pro license. That`s the point.

It is simply NOT true that the PRO license is an one time fee.

I know, existing features will stay but when new features are coming after on year you have to pay again if you want them.

the track record of promised functions and when they are delivered is not the best so i think it would be best to keep the discussion to what it includes today and not what might come.

I love you guys and the work you do, i know you are eager to get new functions out and let us know about it. However history sadly shows that deadlines and delivers is not meet.

Aim not planing to be standing with hardware that i have no use for in my current setup or that i need to replace the day functions are delivered due to they are outdated.

I would buy a zipatile any second if it would delivered what it was advertised as from start at the cost of what the tablet.

But with 2x pro licence, no sip support and no clusters yet i will not dare to do anything.

I want to expand my home system not replace hardware. And as far as i understand it, this mean that i need cluster and licences to get zipabox and zipatile to work together properly.

Many of us keep hanging in here because of the pontential of the controllers, devices and systems, indeed Zipatile is a great device (although it can get scratched very very easily), and together with zipabox represents probably the most flexible and low cost home automation solution in the market. We all bought an "idea" (because it does not work as promised yet) and yet we find out all promises made are broken and the price keep adding up for our system, plus the lack of communication from zipato. Yes, they "support" more protocols and devices than any other solution, but I think it's time to focus on functionality and reliability rather than in more variety of devices and systems. A few months ago the "reason" was the development of zipatile (which has been delayed for both models), now both have been released, cluster was promised to be functional on the release of the first zipatile without cost for early supporters of zipatile. Months have passed and neither Sebastian or anyone on Zipato side have given a new date or even progress update, many people have directly asked questions to Sebastian about it (including myself) and you just "hear cricket noises" while waiting for an answer.

Dear All, the problem is not about the money - i am sure that most of us would have been more than happy to pay 500-1000€ to have systems that would deliver all the functions that have been advertised since months (zipatile) or years (zipabox). I have a nice Zipabox network with mostly Zwave items (100+) connected... my Zipatile is standing idle serving only to connect to my zipabox ...

let them do the work well once and for all ; get out of beta; and then add new functions beyond the one that have been listed as already existing....

Patience is good but overstretching it may cause serious harm.

Most of us have money issues at one point but what I think Christian means is that the main problem is that we are not getting what we already paid for, and on top of that we find out we would have to pay more to get "sort of" what was advertised. KNX is old technology and very very expensive.