Apple Homekit - How far away is it?

Any new information about Apple HomeKit integration?

The year is almost over :-)

Yes, we will come out with the expansion module (hardware) which will allow users of the main unit to interconnect HomeKit devices.

Nice!

Ad thank you for your quick reply.

/Chris

Just to be clear - so if I buy the Zipabox now I can add the upcoming Extension Module for Apple's HomeKit later when it is released (just as if another available module such as 433MHz or ZigBee or BackUp)?

Will I be able to have both a 433MHz Module and a HomeKit Module connected to the same Zipabox?

The silence is astonishing.

Originally Philips promised to provide firmware update supporting HomeKit. Later appeared that it needs hardware upgrade. As you wrote , it needs Hue bridge 2.0. But, it Really works. Even upgrade process was really easy.

If Zipato is developing HomeKit support, it means that they have some plans and time estimations. Why Zipato does not give us any information about development? Maybe because extension module is not even under development. Or, if it is under development, Zipato could inform us.

I am really afraid that Zipabox will not get any hardware upgrades anymore. Is there any news about new modules? I have seen many press documents about totally new devices, but where is news about extension modules?

Sad news but thanks for the clarification.

we have already prepared the HomeKit expansion module for Zipabox, but we don't see the point in releasing it. Apple will only control devices which are particularly licensed with Zipato and Apple together (process defined and led by Apple). Not any device which you can connect with Zipabox (z-wave, zigbee, etc...) will work with SIRI until Apple certify each one of them in particular, together with Zipato. Since this process is very much time consuming especially for Apple, I don't know how many devices we will certify and when. This is why we have postponed the launch of the module until we don't get clear picture about the future of Apple HomeKit.

Thank you Sebastian. It's clear now. Then, the solution of Homebridge, witch is mentioned above, is maybe the way to go for now.

Our API is available directly on the box from local network over HTTP port 8080.

Thank you for your support. Please send me the email on hello@zipato.com, so we can go from there...

It seems like it is not necessary to have Homekit in order to use Siri anymore. Since the Siri is now becoming available for developers, we will add Siri support even before the HomeKit support.

It would be interesting to see if this will work and that you don't face any collisions between the 2 systems. I guess that the usage of SIRI inside the Zipato app will oblige the user to always state the app through which the command should be fulffilled, for example: "Unlock the front door with my Zipato", or "Tell Zipato to dim the lights in my living room".

Anyway, let us hope for the best.

We could in theory provide a messages-like interface via SiriKit, but in practice that would require a lot of work implementing natural language processing to turn those messages into actual Zipato API commands and would probably be in vain because I can't imagine Apple would allow us to circumvent HomeKit like that, especially since we're already members of the MFi program.

That's right, already mentioned that here: https://community.zipato.com/topic/the-state-of-zipato-ios-app#comment-24155

But how can Philips hue have Siri suport. And how can Fibaro have HomeKit support?

Look at the top of the presentation..... Fibaro

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your question, or your tone.

What is stopping Zipato from HomeKit suport and therfor Siri suport threw HomeKit. I will say that I don't understand the tec and how it works.

And when I followed the liks it looks like Philis should not have Siri suport, because it is none of the categories? Or am I missing something?

And also a remark I am not that interested in Siri suport, I am more interested of getting home kit support. Why, because then every home kit compatible app could control my devices and that is fun to play with. And to be able to do things from lock screen on iOS 10, look interesting. And things from Apple often works really good.

But it would be nice to say Hey Siri turn of al lights :-)

Hi,

if you read again the information from Sebastian's post 3 months ago I would say that Apple will certify Fibaro to use Homekit but only in conjunction with Fibaro devices (Actuators and Sensors). In that case, any additional device that I add to my network and that is not manufactured by Fibaro will be denied control from Homekit, I assume.

This strategy fits Fibaro very well because they try their best to differ from the Zwave specifications in order to promote the selling of their own brand. This is not the goal of the Z-wave alliance to have divergent players, instead Zwave promotes compatibility at the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I use some Fibaro products in my setups but they tend to be problematic when not used with a Fibaro Controller.

Alexus I thought the hole point with HomeKit was to bring the brands together to work with each other.

Regardless of that I think that HomeKit will be a deal breaker when most people choose home automation in the future.

Really Jacob, you think Apples intention is to bring things together? Apple never does this, their scope is you want to play with me, play by my rules, and their rules are very strict and uncompromising, and expensive. Honestly homekit isn't even a platform yet, it is still merely an idea, their is no real devices, system, inter-connectivity. It is simply a few wifi devices connecting through a ios app. I am sure when the bluetooth mesh networking is sorted out in 2016-17 that Apple devices will be good but damn expensive. But don't hold you breathe.

And the Home lock screen, that is just a android screen with widgets. Wow.

And Siri, really, it is the worst voice recognition out of the 4. Amazon echos the best, followed by Cortana, Google then Apple. Apple is failing in product development since Jobs' demise unfortunately, it used to be the best. And its closed system policy is only making more developers more to the android platform. Sonos has this approach, and look at them now, massive downsizing and market share loss.

Be patient, when Apple Homekit IS something, Zipato will implement it.

All good points. But you miss why they felt obligated to do this, security, security, security. I think many miss that point when comparing devices. No other company trying to protect ther users against government and other things that compromise the security. If I would choose a door lock with "apple security" or "android security" I would definitely choose Apple.

But every one is different.

But I must admit that Apple falling behind whith a lot of things.

The most interesting thing is why Apple believes in home automation. What is in the pipeline.

Regardless of that Philips Hue work perfect compared to zwave. Both Qubino and Fibaro falling behind when it comes to light control and I can choose from hundreds of apps.

I don't think Apple trying to box you in just because it is fun. They have a reason.

But my belief is that HomeKit will be something to count with in the future.

Sorry Jacob but cant agree with you on this.

I sure hope Apple will fail and not become anything close to leading in home automatstation.

Would hate to see a closed ecosystem where everything is locked in the way Apple would like it to be.

That Apple would sit as a gatekeeper to what is allowed to work with what. Dominating the market and promoting the company's them-self gain most money from.

This would definitively slow down the development and the innovation.

Also why should we trust Apple that they priority security? due to the public stutens they do? Any company in that size will in the end, do or say what will profit them.

BTW i would not like to see google in such a possession either. (not interested to start a Apple vs Google discussion)

This is just my opinion and its up to anyone to have there own

//nic

oh no, look what ive started. ;-)

and again jacob, love you buddy, but seriously. Phillips hue are great. Yes, but they do one thing, and one thing only, lights. Fibaro try to cover all aspects of a home. I just thank god for androids openness and the alliances like z-wave. Otherwise Home automation would not exist like it does. I dont worry, I am sure when Apples homekit and bluetooth mesh is working, it will be good. I just think others will have evolved to the next step and they will be playing catch up even more so. But i have been wrong before. Or have I?

ps Apple security isn't that great compared to Googles and Amazons anyway. You watch, Googles Home will change everything, and once released, will be active on all wall tablets in every room or via a microphone system array distributed throughout a home and run through a central controller. In multiple languages.

Nicklas I have not thought of it that way but you are right, it could potentioaly slow down the development.

But why do z-wave have to be so slow when it comes to light control and why is it so hard to sync light levels. With HUE it follows my finger exactly and I never have to look at the app to determin how much light I want. I only have to look at the light. Why can't z-wave dimmers work like this? Send and receive light intensity many times a second?

"ps Apple security isn't that great compared to Googles and Amazons anyway."

This I don't believe but I will say believe because I don't know.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/apple-ios-vs-google-android-which-more-secure-smartphone-os-1547396

Never heard abut Google Home, but that vas the coolest thing ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KpLHdAURGo#t=120.861091135

Wonder if it only can start music on its on speaker or if it can do it on a sonos like system.

Wonder if it will work with iOs?

Any update here? I'm someone you would probably call an "Apple Fanboy": I would throw my money at you if you had HomeKit available. I would even pay $50 to unlock HomeKit - how about that?

I completely agree:)

Raffaele and Thomas,

While part of what you say makes sense, I think you also at the same time deminish and degrade Zipato controllers to being merely a programmable device interface.

What Zipato brings to the table, is a complete control system. Zipatile is an android device, and much of what is going on there, will probably be mimicked in the android mobile app and hopefully also in the iOS app.

While integration with Apple's HomeKit is nice, I can bet you almost everything that Apple will be protecting their turf and build a walled garden for the HomeKit Certified devices, so that whatever else will be supported, will lack enough functionality so that users in the end will move to pure HomeKit.

Apple is already offering to use AppleTV (ver 2) and any iPad which "stays at home" as controller for HomeKit. My bet is that they go "all in". The iPad will thus be a direct competitor to Zipatile.

I very much doubt that Apple will ever allow advanced scripting, as it would open for bad press when people screw up, and also potentially open up for possible liability resulting in lawsuits all over the place.

While Apple will "own" part of the market, Samsung and others will not sit still. All the commotion and marketing will create awareness and new markets.

There will still be a huge market for Zipato and others :-)

Robert, I have no reason to question what you say and, knowing Apple, probably you are right. Unfortunately, to date, the lack of Zipato controllers is a good app for iOS devices while the Home app seems to be very practical. So what I wrote is only my hope but a new Zipato app for iOS (iPhone and iPad), WhatchOS and TVOS will be more than welcome too.

That was what I was thinking as well. Be able to control devices from an app with a good UI compared to Zipato and that is integrated into iOS + voice control. Rule creation I agree is much better to do in Zipato rule creator.

Robert one thing does not exclude the other. IMO the home app and integration in iOs 10 is the absolutely most convenient ways of controlling light. See my video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dtu3wpRkVs

https://

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dtu3wpRkVs

Hi all,

I have been playing with some OSS software called homebridge that basically acts like a homekit proxy between IOS 10 and older platforms. I have integrated to date HUE, IFTTT, bluetooth, netatmo thermostat and welcome camera / bluetooth tags... While there are plugins for a lot of devices / platforms out there nothing exists for zipato. Has anyone considered implementing this? Is it even possible, are there APIs available?

Thanks,

Alex Kritikos

See here: https://community.zipato.com/topic/compatibility-with-homebridge

Zipato does not seem interested in helping so far.

there are apis available, log in to the control centre, if you are not registered with zipato, register first, then look at the top middle menu, here you will find the link to the api.

If you could do this alex it would be great. I think alot of people would use this and I do not think Zipato will be implementing it for some time

...

From what I see, Apple HomeKit is trying to expand their device interoperability by now offering a software integration. Shouldn't this allow you to integrate without an additional module?

Speaking for myself as an integrator, I just want to offer a solid solution that has local communication and automation with home devices, yet will integrate with Amazon, Google, Apple, and other products of the consumers choice. Seams to me like this the best path, and why HomeKit integration just makes sense.

Like!

Since mid of last year there is no longer hardware chip necessary. I sent already to Zipato. Zipatile can act as one device. What is behind may be hided.

At least it would be great to have Homebridge. I work on this (based on previous. Plugins, but don't work at my side yet...need more time (what I don't have :-)) and it would be great at least to have support from Zipato for that. This would really help, especially when home pod will come ...

Merry Christmas

I've added a Raspberry Pi with NodeRed and MQTT and I'm able to use siri (see movie)

I'm pushing all the data from the Zipatile to MQTT. From node-red I'm trigger the Zipato cloud and pushing some data. In the end I've also added the Ikea gateway (zipatile wasn't able to detect lights) and also connected that one to node red.

Not really happy that everything should go trough the cloud (latency) so hopefully they will full MQTT support or COAP later.

Also experimenting with a different dashboard found this one in the store but also working on some own software.

Okay here is a bigger update:

- I have now HomeBridge and HomeKit up and running:

And I am impressed about functionality of HomeKit app (e.g. small detail when entering room name in device name, the room name is automatically removed, remove this, automatically room name is added again. You don't have to worry about ... or when I tell Siri to switch off lights at living room... automatically all lights with room living room OR in the name living room are switched off. No configuration stuff to be done. If grouped more rooms to one stage, you can act with stage.. easy... Okay no testing of HomeKit.. it is done at other sites..

Overall after modification of the scripts of HomeBridge plugin of zipato and move out some configuration stuff, it added automatically my devices. But some of them I don't want to show and I don't want to enter all filters for names, I added a positive list with UID's. As well the possibility of saving the device file read from Zipato to file system starting HomeBridge. Additionally added some logging functionality to see what is done inside the script and plugin's.. Not perfect and 100% professionell but ..

Tested devices yet:

- lights: switch on/off and set brightness (one light or room or group etc.)

- Power switches (on/off)

- Window cover: only 0 and 100% works (it always goes to those levels when setting a level, but don't know, if this is problem of Zipato.. will test it)

- RGB light: on/off and set brightness level. Setting red, blue... can be done, but currently only separate button

- Zipato Scenes (not HomeKit!): Currently you need to use a virtual switch with scene attached due there is no really corresponding side at HomeKit or I don't find it. But I will add to HomeBridge script later that zipato scenes will be automatically converted to switches..

Stability:

- First I had trouble that HomeKit recognize again HomeBridge due it was on my Mac and powered off some times. Finding no really help at forum's I delete the persistence of the house at HomeBridge, delete house at HomeKit and started again. Now it worked after power off and power on Mac again.

It is enough and I am lucky so that I will buy may be a raspberry PI to run HomeBridge permanently. It is a pitty that my Telekom router cannot run this, nor my NAS QNAP (ARM) and no android app which I would my be trust).

Have a good night!

PS: I used the Current version of Homebridge, Zipato plugin

Stefan Westhäußer: Please! Can you share the modifications you did on the HomeBridge plugin, it crashes and didn't work at all sometimes when I was trying a couple of months ago!

Hi Fab,

I did not tested it plenty of days due I have currently at the MAC which is not running all the time. I planned to use raspberry Pi with homebridge, but currently waiting due may be there will be an anouncement from Zipato They may be Aware of this Topic and perhaps they will announce a timeline. Second I am waiting for Homepod arriving at Germany in spring. In the meanwhile may be Zipato ...

But when I have a Little time next week, I can clean off the script a bit due i build in a lot of debug Output.. it Looks not fine :-)

Then I can share Version number of plugins ...

The only issue I found (despite Long testing) that you Need to quit the process homebridge well don't swicth off the Mac... or wait until shutdown is complete. Then homekit don't connect to homebridge.

You can send me a private note, when you want to test script as it is :-) may be debug entries will help,

Stefan

Hi Stefan,

Did you have the time to clean your script ?

Could you share it with us ? I think many of us would apreciate :)

I have installed homebridge on a raspberry. It works, ok but the zipabox-homebrige plugin is not working. No device are reported in Home app.

Laurent

Oh sorry for so long abstinence. ;-) I was waiting, if a Zipato is announcing now any progress on that because with iOS 11.3 needs only Software no longer Hardware certificate.

Currently am in sick leave ... but may be next week I will try to share.

Normally I don’t like to have a additionally Hardware to buy and power as the raspberry. But the main problem is not knowing if something is coming from Zipato.

We are not working on it yet. We are currently busy working on new apps and some other integrations but we may start working on it by the end of this year if gateway integration will be officially approved by Apple.

Hi Sebastian,

I am understanding both sites. Developer time is limited. I have myself some developers. And you have two priories. But may be you can understand the world without Alexa would need that and there exist a zwave Box near Stuttgart supporting this. Since iOS 11.3 it is official. But an open and realistic communication is most important. When you will start at the end of this year, it makes sense to go first with raspberry solution. May be as a compromise your team can help us with questions if possible. May be we can create an out of the box raspberry solution with installed Zipato plugin. Good night! Thx for answer.

I really think Zipato needs to prioritize this. Word of mouth is a strong thing and I can’t recommend Zipatile to anyone as it is right now. There is also a risk that Apple will do a Zipatile-like solution themselves and then it’s bye-bye. Time to market is essential. I really can’t see any other reason for the Zipato team to wait this long for HomeKit support other than that they use android themselves and simply don’t care for Apple users.

Take a look at the IOS app (the one that looks like a high school project from 2010) and you will know that Apple integration and users isn't exactly top of mind at Zipato.

Exactly, the iOS app is so bad, slow, ugly, and way to cluttered to set in my partners hands. It's a shame because this product could really be good. I know that Apple is Apple, but exactly what have Zipato done about this issue for the last two years? Have they contacted Apple? Lobbying for their product to be compatible? They do have a set of their own brand that could be HomeKit compatible if run together (as with the HUE bridge).

Or are they just sitting on their hands? Seems more like they are developing various nerdy features that won't really help regular Joe's to automate their homes.

Thank you all for your feedback. Although not commenting on everything, we are certainly reading and evaluating all your comments.

We are currently working hard on completely new apps which are going to be the same for Android and iOS. This will be a big change in our strategy and that's why it took us so long.

Regarding the apple home kit, they changed their strategy multiple times in last 2 years so we don't even know what is their strategy concerning the integration of hubs (not devices). However, I still don't understand what would be the benefit for users from the integration with home kit. If this is about the iOS application, theirs is very limited and I am quite sure it won't be competitive to our new iOS app at all. If it is about Siri, it is currently so much less competitive than Google Home, and Amazon Alexa (which can be bought for $39). If it is just because it is a big brand for mobile phones and laptops, that's true but we are not willing to invest so much in integration just because of that.

Anyway, we are looking at it and we will do integration as soon as we get the clear picture of what would be benefit for Zipato and it's users.

Thanks for your quick reply! Good to hear that a new app is on the way for iOS, it will be much appreciated. As I understand your answer you're not seeing the benefits with using Siri over Alexa and Google Home? Wow, thats a disappointing answer, I must say. First, Siri support a lot more languages than the other options (In my case Swedish). I like talking to Siri in my native language. Also, the whole point with having one controller is to be able to control everything with the same interface, right? I bet thats why you started this business in the beginning?

We're quite many with iPhones, you know. We are used to talk to Siri all the time, from our Apple watches, from our iPhones, on the Apple TV. I unlock my Tesla every day with Siri. We don't want another voice assistant! We're happy with Siri, because its ONE interface that we know. The same mission I assume you have with ZipaTile? Apple users are not changing their whole eco system with Apple laptops, TV, HomePods etc just because of your device that cost about $300. Get it? The business case for supporting the apple users, should be clear - we're simply people that are willing to pay twice as much for our devices. By not supporting Siri you cut us of. Man, you really need to get an iPhone.

Hello Sebastian,

I agree with you the "Home" application from Apple is not really useful. But that's not the point.

The Homekit support is a need for apple users because it means that a home-kit compatible device is integrate with all apple's device in a home.

You then have (or have in the future) many possibilities to interact whit it from an iPhone, apple watch, iPad, apple tv, mac, Home Pod, etc...

For my personal need the most important feature is Siri compatibility. I have many apple devices in my home and I want to be able to control them by voice using Siri.

You’re right Siri is (at the moment) not smart as Google Home or Alexa but you miss something:

- Alexa is available only in English. Amazon has announced it will be available in French (my language) during 2018 but not official release date.

- Google Home is available in more language (good point) but is yet not available on Zipato product. You have announced in some post of this forum it will be out soon but still not yet.

- Last point, when a user has an Apple ecosystem at home, he may not want to add another ecosystem in addition like Google Home or Alexa.

I don't know the detail of technical restriction of Apple HomeKit but other smarthome box provider has support for it like Eedomus or Jeedom. I think they both use Homebridge but even a Zipato Homebridge solution would be a great feature.

Hope you will understand that HomeKit compatibility is a must, even if it is only via homebridge

Everything has been said. It is a must. For existing users, and to attract new ones.

Considering the other options better than Homekit is just an assumption it seems Zipato made on behalf of their users. We just (& fermly, for so many reasons) disagree with :)

Please revise your position and catch-up with HomeKit or at least homebridge integration.

Thanks

Ps: on my side I have more and more HomeKit and non-HomeKit (via homebridge) products since months, which is lovely. (Even some dirty home-made http interactions between homebridge and my zipabox)

As a consequence, and despite the huuuuuge drawback of missing Zipato rules power, I’m more and more getting ride of Zipato. I guess I should not be alone in this situation...

sebastian what a disappointing approach. I dont like Apple products much, i think Siri is a child compared to the Google Home and Alexa products, Apples innovation and position as market leaders has collapsed. But they are APPLE, and command 25% of the market by themselves. Thats 25% of your potential customers that go elsewhere for this simple solution. And these customers want SIRI integration, it doesn't matter that a Goggle mini is $40, they dont want it.

Dont officially support homekit for now, I understand your reasoning as Apple also haven't confirmed their full intentions yet, just set a developer to work on this https://github.com/lrozema/homebridge-zipato to add to a raspberry PI, or better yet add to a SD card to plug into the Zipatile that will allow Homebridge Homekit functionality for those who need it. Make it a downloadable "brand" on your add device page and sell the bloody package.

And if nothing else, it is another marketing tool to use, this in itself will show Zipato as a IOT leader in integration and supported ecosystems.

but lets be honest, even if Zipato decide to undertake this project it wouldn't get completed for another year or more. We cant even get Google Home after 6 months of telling us it was a high priority.

So I did some further testing with Homebridge and zipato running on a raspberry pi. Scene activation work fine but can't dim lights up or down: any action in HomeKit just makes my Fibaro dimmers turn off. Tried updating the zipato node that was delivered within the Homebridge-zipato package, but to no success. Anyone got this working?

Maybe we should start a new thread for the Homebridge zipato-plugin?

Hi Fab,

Some months ago I tested at my Mac running nodes. It worked with dimming. I waited until I had my companies gift card to buy raspberry pi. Now I got it and after my holidays in 3 weeks I will check and give an update.

Thanks Stefan! Did you go for the local API or the cloud api?

I am sure will die before Zipato so you shouldn’t worry about it.

Hi Fab, may be it is not so strict, but for sure Zipato will miss some customers in the future. And it is like in other sales cycles.. missed customer is missed money. Therefore I am not happy that Zipato don't assist to setup home bridge with her Api and their know how. It could be a interims solution.

You wrote that you have running homebridge. How did you realize this? I have homebridge running on a PI but after some time it loose connection. Need to reboot. It is not reliable yet and no logs help. Seems that the call come to Zipatile but nothing happened. And as well when I change values from zipato I don't see this reflected in homebridge. This running would be a reason may be to use zipato longer. I like the zipatile.

Same here Benjamin.

Im sad that it had to come so far.

One area that HomeKit could potentially expand into is the bedroom, with the ability to control devices such as a divan bed, smart pillows, or a sleep tracking system. While this may be a few years away, it's not hard to imagine the convenience and potential benefits of being able to control your sleeping environment with the tap of a button or the sound of your voice. Click here to learn more about the current state of HomeKit and its potential future developments in the bedroom and beyond.