Zipabox without internet access ?

Jerome shared this question 4 years ago
Answered

Hi,

Zipabox does work without internet connection ?

Is it possible to create rules without internet connection ?

Zipabox : Standalone box or only cloud box ?

Thanks

Comments (34)

photo
2

It is not possible to create rules without Internet connection. Zipabox is standalone box as it is possible to use the box and all the rules on it without Internet connection, but "rule creator" is the cloud service. In the future, we will add more cloud services...

photo
1

Are you planning to propose the rule generator in standalone mode ?

or are we dependent zipato cloud ? :-(

zipato cloud down/Ko -> not changes on the box (rule generator) :-(

photo
2

Do you guys realize you add a dependency between someone's house and the Internet? What should I say when I put my house on sell: wait, I can't show you how it works because I suspended my Internet contrat... oh and yes your future house won't be fully usable till you have an Internet connection (understand: you HAVE TO PAY to use your house). Kinda crazy.

Cloud services are great but don't made them mandatories for the box to run properly (and the rules definition is a core service). 90% of serious users will still keep using Vera's and Fibaro's boxes until then, even if the Zipabox seems great.

photo
6

Brice wrote:

Do you guys realize you add a dependency between someone's house and the Internet? What should I say when I put my house on sell: wait, I can't show you how it works because I suspended my Internet contrat... oh and yes your future house won't be fully usable till you have an Internet connection (understand: you HAVE TO PAY to use your house). Kinda crazy.

Cloud services are great but don't made them mandatories for the box to run properly (and the rules definition is a core service). 90% of serious users will still keep using Vera's and Fibaro's boxes until then, even if the Zipabox seems great.

Dear Brice, I really don't understand are you missing something here, or you are just unreasonably supporting our competitors on our support page? I think it is already clear that ZIPABOX IS WORKING OFFLINE, WHICH MEANS WITHOUT INTERNET CONNECTION. What you can't have in this case is INTERNET ACCESS for which you really need INTERNET CONNECTION. If you don't have internet access, you don't have central station monitoring which Vera or Fibaro aren't supporting anyway. Also, without Internet connection, you can't create new rules by using our rule creator as it is a cloud based service, same as every other cloud service. Rule creator is demanding peace of the software and it would be stupid to buy it together with powerful hardware required by it, just to occasionally create or change some of your home rules. Once you create the rule by using our online tool, you can download rule and use it forever, locally, without Internet connection. If you already have Zipabox, potential buyer will buy 100% working home without any Internet connection (which is strange in these days, but OK). If he would like to do some "remodeling" of his current configuration on his new home, then, he will need to have Internet connection and use our Cloud service. Personally! (you don't have to read this:-) As a new buyer, I would be more worried about using an modified network router or embedded PC working on 60°C for turning ON/OFF my lights every day. But it is up to each buyer. Also, all the buyers which need to pay for some smart home installation will require some remote access and here we have Internet problem as well: I wouldn't be happy to buy home with the router which is being pre-configured by ex owner to allow me to access in to my new home remotely? I mean, not just that he did port forwarding on it, but for this he was most probably using the router which belongs to his Internet operator. If I need to buy it, than the question is why, when my operator will give me one for free? Also, there is a security issue: whether I'l do the "port forwarding" configuration properly or not. What about some security patches which should be done later, eventually? I think I would prefer Zipato solution as it will require only password change and I still would be able to remotely and securely control my home by using only phone. And also, I would like to have monitoring station alerting me if someone cut off my Internet connection in order to break in to my home. And I would like option to have specialized, LOW POWER, hardware for home automation which I would rely on for a while. Much less I would be worried about the need of Internet connection once I need to reprogram my home automation system. But this is me. Sorry for promoting our solution but those are the pages for it.

photo
1

@Sebastian

Having the box monitored and updates (in terms of rules) through the Internet connection only is, i think, a limitation. Why can't we control the box with in house software like HomeSeer or others ? Also, what about the security aspect ? How can you certify that you will never be hacked ? What would happen in this case ? All the house automation and security would be available to the hackers ?

I think both options can be an advantage.

photo
1

Tomcat wrote:

@Sebastian

Having the box monitored and updates (in terms of rules) through the Internet connection only is, i think, a limitation. Why can't we control the box with in house software like HomeSeer or others ? Also, what about the security aspect ? How can you certify that you will never be hacked ? What would happen in this case ? All the house automation and security would be available to the hackers ?

I think both options can be an advantage.

How would you suggest to monitor the box if not by the central servers? Regarding the security aspect, if someone breaks in the house and smash the box (let's say homeseer) how will you get the notification?

Regarding the rule creator, there is a certain amount of CPU power required for running such a graphical programming tool. The box should cost much more (maybe like HomeSeer) if it will be powerful enough to run the rule creator. On the other side, how often an average customer will use the rule creator and is it wort enough to pay so much more just to have it on the box (not to mention electricity consumption for such a power 24/7 for box lifetime).

We think, this is the optimal solution. Use cloud for the monitoring and programming. Enjoy FREE monitoring service, and still everything will work in case of Internet connection loss.

photo
1

i agree with you in terms of resources and power required to run the rule creator. That's why an external software may be interesting. About security, it's a never ending discussion.... i never had and will never have my house security based on external (cloud) servers. I'm using zwave for everything except that. Also, having a wave (or other) configuration relying on a box using external servers only means that my investment is correct as far as the company exists. I wish you a very long life in this business of course, but how can you and I be sure ?

photo
1

Now, I don't understand. If you want to use Zipabox as offline alarm YOU CAN DO IT. Once after you configure your alarm system as being your own security installer, disconnect it from the cloud and when some of your sensors detects something your siren will start yelling and your lights could go on etc... Good old fashion security system, guys from DSC, Honewell and other earned a fortunes on it...

Why do you need "rule creator" (programming tool) to be offline for your security purposes? What do you mean about your house security "based on external servers"?

Those servers can provide you with security alert in case someone "crash" your alarm system but only if you are smart to use them wisely. Otherwise someone smart can always jam your network and break in to your home and say thank you for choosing offline security system. This is why I suggest you should use those servers or some other monitoring servers as monitoring station, but as I said many time before withing this thread: "you don't have to use cloud servers for security".

photo
1

2Sebastian Popovic

As I understand, due to hardware Zipato put heavy services (like web & graphics) out to cloud? If so - it's rather smart concept!

But your product will be really brilliant, if you allow customers to use local server sofware (win | nix) as an addition to cloud service. It will cut your servers load & make Zipabox more flexible in various scenes... (office firewall rules, already built home intraweb, sluggish or expensive Inet access)

Local setting backup is also welcomed.

I'm looking forward to by your product and think that such a new possibility will attract a swarm of new customers )

photo
1

Thank you Vadim ... for taking these comments to a higher level

Since this is also what I am looking for in the domotica system I will eventually buy.

The possibility to run on my own servers is VERY important to me...

Would buy the system that offers me this option in a heartbeat !!!

photo
1

This limitation means that I have to cross Zipabox off my list for myself and others. The promise to release the source code if the company fails is not good enough to invest in a product which may one day become useless.

photo
1

I agree totally, I really don't want a system which is dependent on the cloud and want to have full control over. Zipabox is the most complete home automation system available but would like a zipabox+ which has a bigger processing unit and is completely stand alone and is handling all services by itself.

photo
1

My cents:

Build a Zipato OfflineModule, that integrate all teh functions of your cloud servers monitoring, alerting and so on.

Who like the cloud solution use the zipbox standards. Who like to have a standalone solution will buy and use the module :)

Simple, and all users will be happy :)

photo
1

After some time, I need to say few words again. First of all, I am glad that most of you like the system, as there are many competitive systems outside and it is not easy to get the attraction of the customers.

As for the cloud concept, Zipato is presented as a "smart alarm" system. Cloud is necessary to provide monitoring and alerting service available 24 hours per day, and this is the beginning of the story. This is the most important feature for the security and heath care applications, so we can't avoid having the powerful and reliable cloud system, as this is not possible to have in a local mode.

As for the energy awareness, it is much more efficient to have centralized power for running the programing tools. If all the customers would have more CPU power just to occasionally access to the programming tool, this wouldn't be very much earth friendly. And this was also, one of our issues.

On the other side, all the automation features are already placed on the box, except that you need the cloud to configure them. So what is the actual problem with the cloud? Accessing it from time to time in order to change something in the configuration? Personally, I wouldn't like to have some "bakery machine", running 24 hours per day for about 5 years (as it will probably burn out afterwards) and consuming high amont of power just to let me access it locally instead of through the browser.

Anyway, there are many more products and features which are coming soon and I think they will be much more attractive than this one here. But, thank you for your suggestions.

photo
1

I'm interested in the zipabox, especially because its expandable with different protocols. But the fact that it's only programmable through the cloud concerns me. I was hoping for at least an open API. Too bad. I'll wait a few months, before making a decision, to see if there are any changes planned about this subject.

photo
1

Peter Vanpoucke wrote:

I'm interested in the zipabox, especially because its expandable with different protocols. But the fact that it's only programmable through the cloud concerns me. I was hoping for at least an open API. Too bad. I'll wait a few months, before making a decision, to see if there are any changes planned about this subject.
The cloud services were down three times yesterday and again today that I know of without explanation or warning and the Android app won't work without the cloud, be careful with your money!

BTW, I have to use the Android app as my Aeon Labs Minimote still isn't supported!

photo
1

  • The cloud service is being restarted when it is being updated with the new functionality.
  • The cloud system is only being used for the programming functionality as all the control options are available WITHOUT USING THE CLOUD by using any iOS device and by the end of this month, any Android device as well.
  • Minimote is not being supported as a secondary controller due to the way how it is work. But there are other z-wave devices which could be used as a secondary controller (e.g. Qees keyfob).

Sure I agree, with Ray that you should be careful with your money:-)

photo
1

Just a brief note to get what Zipabox is straight. I am currently using a RPii with z-wave.me which is completely cloud based so if internet goes down nothing works. I believe that Zipabox uses cloud to adjust settings, schedules etc which is then downloaded locally to the box so everything keeps working if internet goes out. Is this correct? I believe that it uses cloud to do settings rather than local to keep zipabox specs down and thus both price and power consumption are lower? The apps etc won't work without internet even locally on wifi? so far all seems to make sense and is justifiable. Just wondering if there is a reason you can make the cloud service available as a download to use locally across a network that could be put on a download page on your website? Shouldn't take to much to do then everyone is happy :)

photo
1

Hi Sebastian,

you said in your post above (2 months ago) that the Android app would be capable of handling control options WITHOUT USING THE CLOUD by the end of this month.

Since two months have now been gone, is the latest Android app now capable of such an OFFLINE control?

Wishes, Martin

photo
1

Martin Fabach wrote:

Hi Sebastian,

you said in your post above (2 months ago) that the Android app would be capable of handling control options WITHOUT USING THE CLOUD by the end of this month.

Since two months have now been gone, is the latest Android app now capable of such an OFFLINE control?

Wishes, Martin

Yes it is. It is not available on the play store, but it will be this week. However, you can also find it here on the community...

photo
1

Sebastian Popovic wrote:

Martin Fabach wrote:

Hi Sebastian,

you said in your post above (2 months ago) that the Android app would be capable of handling control options WITHOUT USING THE CLOUD by the end of this month.

Since two months have now been gone, is the latest Android app now capable of such an OFFLINE control?

Wishes, Martin

Yes it is. It is not available on the play store, but it will be this week. However, you can also find it here on the community...

Sorry Martin, my mistake. The version with the local control is still not available neither on this forum:-(

photo
1

So... when Android app with offline control?

I'm planning to buy zipabox to build (main scope) a simple web-enabled alarm system.. but I think offline control is a MUST-have for an alarm system.

photo
1

For me to, this is a big issue, I need an android app with local mode.

When that is available, I will by the zipabox

photo
1

Maybe I'm not tech savvy enough but I can't really understand the aversion from Zipabox devs to create a possibility for users to setup rules and what not the box without internet access. Why can't you get both? A downloadable program to create rules offline that syncs to the cloud when Internet access is available or when you feel like it. Much like iTunes where you can do lots of stuff to your iPhone and when you feel ready just press "Synchronize".

For me, nothing is impossible in the digital world. It's only a question if you want to, not if you can do it...

photo
1

Any news about the android app with local mode ????

photo
1

Hi Sebastian,

if some one smash the box (thief) is there any solution that calls me in this situation?

wishes mehrpaad

photo
1

Hi,

you can buy the Backupmodul, there you have a shocksensor inside.

So if anyone put the box up, you can configure to send the box a message.

regards Helle

photo
1

@zipabox

Please answer the following question and do not ignore/avoid it!

Why is there no software available to install on my own pc to control teh zipabox?

@everyone else

Look how they will try to NOT give you any real answer to my question!!!

photo
1

Hi Yoram,

because to write a programm that can create rules like this, is f**ing expensive ;-)

photo
1

because zipabox cannot even afford to write the software is hardly a valid answer

photo
1

besides, most of the software is already in the cloud. Can be that expensive...

And to finalize against your argument: It is more expensive to miss out on customers....

photo
1

I mean, if they give the software to anyone, it will be copied....

photo
1

@everyone else;

I could not care less about their answers....

My job is managing security for private houses and small companies in the Netherlands.

&Would never sell this product anyway...not anymore....not in the future.

There are better and more professional products out there....this is just a commercial trap.

photo
1

There is a software application which you can install to your pc. Just write this : "my.zipato.com" to your web browser. Read this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

Show respect to Zipato team because they are making very well.