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PAID SERVICES/APPLICATIONS

Sebastian Popovic shared this announcement 2 years ago

Dear customers,

we are currently preparing the system for the official release v.1.0. Thus we are going to introduce the Zipato options and applications store. Some of these applications are already available today, but many more will be developed and introduced in the future. However, not all of them will be necessary for all of our users, so we found application store as the most suitable way to offer them.

After experimenting during the past with various subscription models, we have decided to offer each additional software option/application for one-time purchase only, rather than through the subscription model. However, Premium plan will still stay available, and it will include all current options/application, as well as all future options/applications. Thus, users will be able to chose what's best for their needs.

EXISTING USERS (having the controller registered before the official release v.1.0)
Considering the fact that many of our existing customers were helping us with their feedback during the development of Zipato system, all currently available options/applications will continue to be available for all of our existing users (users which have their controller registered before the official v.1.0 release). In case you are currently having some difficulties to use some of options, this is just a temporarily problem while the system is being upgraded.

POWER USERS
Also, existing and future power users which are valuable members of this community forum will be able to use all future options/applications free of charge.

Thank you for your support.

Comments (138)

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Thanks a lot Sebastian.


Do you have a price list for the new services? Will you provide a reseller price list?

If I'm getting the announcement right, the earlier adopters will have access to all the features free of charge (only the features you already implemented).

Regarding new users, they will have to pay only for advanced features (which?). Will you require a fee for each added device?


I understand the decision of Zipato to require a fee (I know that maintain the cloud cost a lot), but this new policy can move your domotic solution to another market positioning. That's why I hope that the new fee you will require will be painless for all the users.


Since I like your solution, I hope that this decision will not damage the development of the project...

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Hi Alberto,


you are right, existing features will stay available for all existing users. There will be no backward policy changes.


As for new users, prices will depend of option/app, but regularly they will cost between 30-50Euro (one time fee). Considering the fact that users won't need all options anyway, this certainly won't significantly change the total price. But it will still bring us some necessary revenue for future development.


As for resellers, they will have the same options as for our products. Very soon, we will publish the official reseller application form online.


Regards,

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Hi Sebastian,


I don't understand: I'm an existing user since more than 1 year and when I want to upgrade to Pro the program ask for 99 credits (100€). For now I'm using release 0.9.999.8a and that one doesn't satisfied myself, to many bugs especially with the thermostat fonctions. For sure I won't pay 100€ per year for a release which doesn't work as I would've wished.

If I would've known when I chose Zipato (3 years ago) the release would cost Euro I wouldn't have bought Zipato.

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I hope that soon you will be more specific about the extra and included features (according to the features you already provide).


I think that this will help also all other providers of your solution.

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Hi.


For some reason today when i logged on my Zipabox, I'm no

longer allowed to use IF - ELSE or the repeat control, To use them I

have to buy 100 credits for 100 USD = 87,82 Euro (in todays exchange

rate)

(Rule Creator Pro cost 99 credits apperantly?)


It´s just not worth it. TCO in the end will be to high. I relly hope the prices arn't set yet.

Otherwise it´s going to be hard to continue resell Zipato,

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Hi Jonas, can you please contact support and send us your username. You should not have any issue using rule creator, as it is still not limited neither to new users. If you are having problems, this could be some issue related to this upgrade process.


As for the price of the Rule creator PRO, it will be 59 credits.


Regards,

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Same problem here

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Same issue with rule creator. When I try to drg-drop a new action on the rule creator board, I have a "Buy Credit" pop-up Window. I opened a ticket since I can now modify rules any more.

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I can't use HTTP and Socket request anymore

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thank you for the feedback. It seems that new settings didn't apply properly on some accounts. We are working on it and we will enable all accounts during the day...

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Same problem here

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same here, created a support ticket.

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Same here and created a ticket as well. Furthermore I can not add Sonos/Hue devices because of the same reason.

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Same problem here. No HTTP and Socket.


Also, creating a ticket for it fails :(

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Same for me no HTTP and Socket

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me 2 and Sonos, hue and global cache are locked under add device wizard.

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me too. Guess it will be fixed soon so won't create a ticket. :-)

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Situation slighlty improved : Most of the Rules actions are now back, except "HTTP Requests" and "Socket Requests".

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that's a very good initiative Sebastian ! I hope that with those addons zipato will be more in line with the competitors !

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I have just logged on the find the charges I guess you are thinking of charging for certain features. I, and I think others, will be happy to pay, if the costs are not so high. Imagine I need Global, Sonos and Hue for $60 US each. Another $180 on top of the unit itself. And so far the integration of these devices is not fully functional. For such high price I would expect usability in-line with there respective apps. Maybe a one off fee to buy all options would be great, at a heavily reduced price. I realise this is too help with future development, but it is also the reason many people have turned to the Zipabox over your competitors. Not to mention Http and socket Requests in the puzzle maker. This is starting to become a very expensive unit.


The fact the Zipabox can not be used is local mode continuously, the addons are not fully implemented and usable, the app it not very polished, not all protocols are supported as advertised. The Zipabox, although a good all round machine, with very good functionality, is not unfortunately the fine tuned machine I think many people will pay the extra cost for.

Still, the customer support is higher than most competitors and it is a highly functional product. Maybe finish fully integrating the add ons you have now to give a better user experience, make the app a little more friendly and with the ability to modify the layout, and an andriod tv app or Kodi/Plex integration.

Maybe these prices are not set yet, lets hope not.

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Hello Adrian,


thank you very much for your valuable feedback. This is exactly what we need in order to optimize our payment model.

However, this is just a beginning, and currently we are focused mostly on technical implementation of provisioning and billing, as we are active in many countries worldwide.In the future, we will certainly introduce some additional options to buy these application, like bundles and promotional periods.


As for the option to purchase all at once, it is difficult as we would like to constantly develop new ones. Actually, the main purpose of this concept is to ensure stabile financial resources for sustainable further development of this system. However, for user which would like to use all options available and connect as many devices as they like, there is a Premium subscription option available. It will allow usage of all current and future options, and some additional value added services which will be specifically available for Premium customers (e.g. cloud storage for camera photos and so on...)


Regarding some protocols which are not fully supported yet, it is sometimes hard to support them fully, due to the lack of appropriate documentation and support from the manufacturers. However, in case that someone purchase some of Zipato options and these don't comply to it's expectation, we are always willing to cancel the purchase and and make a full refund. We have never had any issues with this.


Local connection which you are mentioning is only not working properly with iOS application due to the issue with the new application itself. This is however, already improved and it should be much better after the new release this week.


Anyway, we are now fully focused on polishing the system and listening carefully feedback from our customers, in order to develop new options which will make Zipato better for them.


Furthermore, we will very soon introduce our Reseller program, through which, our Resellers will be available to offer these same options and applications, bundled with their own integration and maintenance services. This will certainly gain value and make Zipato to become easier to install and use in any home.


In any case, we will be following all feedbacks here, and act accordingly as much as we can.


Regards,

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This all sounds good, I realise Zipato need a continual income to support product upgrades and be financially sustainable. You already have a product that out supplies almost every other vendor in terms of functionality and supported products, plus a great support team. I just do not wish to lose the appeal Zipabox has always had, a low cost automation solution. The premium services are good value I think, the single add ons not so much, especially considering their limited functionality. And maybe some should not be priced, such as messaging pro, rule creator pro, single and smart license, smart thermostat and alarm pro, these are items that are almost basic features for the Zipabox which makes it more appealing than your competitors. And charging for connecting numerous devices definitely sounds unreasonable. We should be able to connect or create as many devices as we see fit. If this is your intention, just allow unlimited devices but charge a slightly higher price for the box initially.


Any "investment" in the growth and expansion of the Zipabox is a good idea in my book, I think I will be pushing the premium services to customers. I like being able to supply a product for one reasonable price that includes everything a person may need.

Just improve the app please.

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Are we all beta testers in fact ???

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Yes we are. Zipaton firmware is not 1.0

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than is suppose that for the existing users before vc1 it will give an answer to this post https://community.zipato.co...

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Last question no addon for netatmo ?

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Before purchasing a pack, I would like to know what devices are supported. I own a Global Cache iTach ip2ir and I know it is not supported, only the Flex is. When purchasing it says 'Permanent licence for interconnection with Global Cache devices'. If I purchase this pack, I would be very disappointed if only the iTach Flex is supported.

Same with Sonos. I know Play 1 and 5 are supported. What about the Playbar for example?

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You are right. You should be able to get into the network menu, where you can see all supported device prior to purchase an interface module. We gonna improve this one.

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We went already through all your accounts. There are two different problems related to these issues. So some of features will become available again today, while some of them will be available tomorrow.

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Thanks Sebastian for the update. Most puzzle blocks are back, except HTTP request and Socket. I will wait for tomorrow to check if the rest of the features is enabled again.


What about Sonos and Hue? As early adaptors, do we need to buy them or are they also become available tomorrow?

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Hello Sebastian, thanks for response.


I have now lost most of my puzzle blocks again.

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I think it could be a good idea that users get a trial period of this new features - 14 or 30days.

Then they can look for all features and decide about a purchase, if all is working as expected - what do you think?

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It could be the problem if user use the app for some time, configure and create what he needs, than we will have problems to make a "clean cut", probably he would need to restart the controller to factory default settings. Most of our apps are related to some configuration and interconnection options. Once after you do it, you practically don't need it any more, as the system will work afterwards as ti is. However, it is good idea to rethink.

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Same problem

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Sebastian, I also have some problems configure the Alarm Partitions. There is a message that I need the "Smart Alarm pro" license.

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Same issue for me with the alarm partition (smart alarm pro needed to modify "exit delay" value

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Alarm partition needs smart alarm pro and not http requests and sockets.

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Everything back again. Thanks!

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Same here, can not use socket & http. Filed an issue trough support yesterday morning but have not heard anything back.


I must say it's hard to stay positive when all of this stuff is happening although I love the zipabox in general. Yesterday I told a friend of mine, who wants to start with a home automation system and has a preference for the zipabox, to wait for at least a couple of weeks until we have clarity of what is exactly going to happen.


You might want to consider a roll back and then re-deploy when you can actually release the changes including the right information for everyone.. Just a suggestion.. Like I said before, I still love the zipabox although I'm getting a mixed feeling because of the sudden introduced payed options. Just don't know what the future will bring.. please give clarity on this.

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First, thank you for you support, and sorry for the inconvenience with some of functions which are temporarily unavailable. These will be available very soon again.


As for the paid options, they will stay as options. And we will certainly work hard to provide as many options as possible as there are various users around the world, with different requests. With this model, they should all get what they want, and we will be able do deliver.

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Hello Sebastian,

Are you sure it's the right time to add "paid services" ?

If you take a look on many forum, you will see that the "credibility" of the Zipabox is (now) very low ... it was not the case many months ago.

Many current users are complaining (unstable features, ios, etc ...)


If I were you, I would postpone the "paid services" for a few months, just to wait to reach a good level of "credibility"

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Hi,

unfortunately this is the truth that on some forum you can get this impression. However, Zipato has been out for 2 years already, and yet the official release was not published. During this phase, some customers did have some issues with the system and they were certainly not happy. However, Zipato is much more stable today than any other competitive system, and provides much more functionalities. Certainly there are still some issue to fix (we are talking about system which supports biggest number of communication standards in the world, and manage them through different platforms). But in general, our new customers are very happy with the system, and we have some huge installations in place already, so I don't see the big obstacle from this side.


Also, these paid services should help us improve the whole experience. Users will probably use the system in more useful way, and we gonna get some reasonable feedback about the usability of newly developed options.


Anyway, I don't thing there is a right time to introduce "charging" of anything:-) So I guess, we just have to it one. Certainly we have to do it before we publish the official release and we are getting there.


I really hope that this is going to help us boos the complete system, which will make us all benefit from it.


Regards,

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I really hope that you choose the right solution

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At least you can say that Zipabox has developed very quickly. Faster than many competitors.

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I hope we are not going to pay for every single options soon...

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Hello guys,


if you are experiencing problems with the paid features please open a Ticket at support.zipato.com and we will resolve it. Thank you in advance.


Regards

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A lot of functionality is apperantly still missing on our accounts. When can we expect full functionality restored?


Also I must say that I am very surprised that functionality already implemented should be unavailable to new users unless spending a substantial amount of extra money. I really like my Zipabox but this feels really doubtful and my fear is that many people who consider a Zipabox may instead purchase one of the competing controllers. To purchase new advanced functionality for a reasonable cost is one thing, but removing what I consider basic functions for new users may be fatal in the long run and no doubt a very risky way to go.

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Dear Martin,


we respect your opinion, but most of these controllers are already way more expensive than Zipabox. Others are not having neither options, neither customer support on an appropriate level. In case we want to bring this whole system to the new level, we have to charge:-( Sure, customers, should get what they pay for.

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Thanks for your reply. I don't agree fully and I hope that your business concept won't prove fatal since I really enjoy the Zipabox in general.


For my main question, when can we expect full functionality restored for existing customers?


I am missing a lot of functionality (alarm config, rule creator, Sonos support, http request, just to mention some..), i guess this is general for all existing users so I don't create support ticket just yet.

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Well Marin, if we don't charge anything, our business will be fatal anyway:-)

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I just ordered a global cache IR blaster. And now I see I suddenly have to pay for it to add it to the Zipabox. :( :( :( Can this be fixed? I will send an e-mail to support.

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Global Cache is the good example. Seamless integration requires a lot of effort from our side. This is why we ask users to buy it, as this way we can continue adding new protocols like that in the future.


However, as Global Cache is obviously added before we have published the official v.1.0 release, you will be able to have it for free.


We will check it out today.


Regards,

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Hi Sebastian, thanks for the update.

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seems my account is fixed. Thanks!

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Voor alle Nederlandse gebruikers heb ik even een duidelijk overzichtje gemaakt:


http://www.domotica-blog.nl...

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Now get the Livolo switches supported, and I'll draw my wallet faster than billy the kid drew his guns........ ;-)

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My HTTP and Socket is back. The insert value/attribute on a message is still on paid though. 59 credits to insert a variable seems a bit steep to me.

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Indeed, I would like to be able to use variables in messages but am never going to pay 59 credits for just that feature.

Perhaps the price of that package should be adapted for existing users as for them part of the package is already available?

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I fully agree, the price seems way out of proportion. If I need to pay 60 credits for every little new thing I want to try out, this is not the box for me anymore.

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I think it would be a better solution to make a subscription on some of the services with monthly payments instead of charging a high lifetime fee in advance. Personally I would not pay USD50-60 in advance before testing the service. Getting 7 or 14 days test and then paying USD2 a month is OK. Or a combination. Pay 50 get lifetime, Pay 2 and get monthly.


It would generate less money right away but I think high prices on services would make people choose other services / brands.


One other thing, I don't like the way you have to buy credits for the service that is onetime. Buy service = charged for the service with PayPal, Visa ++ right away. You need 2 services, make a shopping cart or make credits = amount charges for a service.


Christian


I would not pay

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HI Zipato,


I just got the zipabox yesterday and registered, which is before version 1.0 officialy came out.


Now I am getting prompted to pay for every advanced function I want to use (e.g. operators).


Why is this? I specificaly chose the zipato brand over others because of the high level of customizable parameters out of the box. Now I am being asked to pay for.


Thanks in advance for your answer.

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There are only two versions of Rule Creator, basic and PRO. Basic version is included free of charge, while PRO version could be purchased additionally for 59Euro. All advanced Rule creator options are included in the PRO version so you don't have to pay for each advanced option separately.


However, currently we still haven't publish the official v.1.0 version, so these rules are applied to you by mistake. Please contact support in order to enable these services for you.


Regards,

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Where is the detail and assurance of quality and slickness for the paid services? Having been a Sonos buyer, I'm used to their model of 'not paying extra for updates, etc', slick interface and things 'just working'.


Using Zipato seems to be a bit of a step back to the days when Bluetooth was launched; you'd spend days getting something to work.


Paying extra without knowing whether something's going to do what you need it to is a no go for me I'm afraid.


can you explain:

- If I don't pay extra, will I lose services or features?

- What will 'Smart Alarm Pro' give me that I don't have already?

- Ditto Smart Thermostart Pro?

- As a pre launch user (I didn't know I was until the box arrived!) will I get these items free? Your post wasn't exactly clear. At the moment it appears to need me to pay....


Thanks


Steve

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Hi Steve,


as I already mentioned before, there is always possibility that some features which you buy won't justify your expectation. In this case we gonna cancel this service for you, and refund your credit account. Also, in this case, you can request your money back, in which case, we gonna cash out your credits.


As for the Smart Alarm PRO, Thermostat PRO and other apps we may have in the future, we will promote them as much as we can. However, there will always be apps which are not intent to be used by all Zipato users. Actually, besides some "testers" no one really need them all.

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Global Cache Flex 121,- + 59 credits = 180,-


The Global Cache is expensive and now its even more....

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after contact with the support I don't understand why we need to pay for the links with sonos , hue, nest because those connections are free of charge for the other boxes like eedomus, I thing your are busy to kill your business model.


I tough in beginning that your sales elevator pitch was the ability to simply upgrade your installation by only adding extra modules no trace about a extra cost fro some software plugins!


example taken from you site =

Expanding functionality by just snaping in additional modules gives Zipato box unlimited upgrade possibilites.


sorry but I must say that I was originally a supporter of zipato but now I'm in the detractor side

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Thank you all for your feedback. It is highly valuable for us to understand what are your preferences and expectations. This will help us to define better which applications and services we are going to charge and how much.


We are still highly motivated to work hard in order to make all Zipato users happy, but we are also private company and we have to pay our bills. Although there are some users which don't want to pay for anything, there are still majority of our users which are willing to pay for some additional applications and services. We would like to focus more on these users, and provide them with higher level of support, education, new options, integration of some of their new devices and protocols, and so on... Also, we have some new ideas about some great functions and interfaces, and we would like to develop them, and offer them to users which are willing to pay for them. This however, shouldn't anyhow disturb of affect customers which are not willing to pay for any of extra services, as they will still have the same support and services which they have paid for initially.


As for prices of extra services and applications, we have published already a sort of in-app store (available at my.zipato.com), where users will be able to upgrade their systems if they want to. Like in any other store, prices are subject to change (thank you for your comments) and there will be various promotional actions available for Zipato users in order to get them cheaper in bundles. Furthermore, there is a subscription plan available for 9Euro/month for advanced users, which would like to get it ALL. This plan includes all licenses, current and future software options, 1GB storage for cloud based camera recordings and historical data, and premium support service.


In general, we offer wide range of services and applications in order to provide users with the choice and solutions. We are well aware that not everyone will buy some of additional applications or services, and we do respect their choice. However, we consider home automation quite seriously and we would still like to offer something extra for users which thinks similar.


Also we do respect anyone's opinion about our strategy and we appreciate each feedback, as long as it constructive and it comes with good intentions.

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I don't mind pay for some services. I myself is happy that you have choose to set a one time cost instead of subscription option.

At the first glance of it i would say its to high based on my interpretation of the text. Documentation and explanation of it is a bit poor so not sure exactly how for instance a "single licence 10 dollar" will apply. Or what the Rule creator pro will contain.

(is there any more exact specification what it includes?)


I will for sure mind more about bugs and problems with the box if i start to pay this cost for the services.

As you mention abow the box is far more stable now then it have ever been. However its still does not live up to what it needs to be a replacement for a alarm system that you could trust.


Advertised on zipato.com for the box:

security (no i would not dare to have this replacing normal alarm)

comfort (yeah i trust it for that, well even more if you fix the reboot variables does not get reset)

energy (yeah for none crucial things, would not let it control my freezer as example)

healthcare (not a change in hell)


I really hope you thought this thou and calculated what the cost would be for new users. Specialty for user that looking for replacing your competitor solution and moving to zipato that already have house full of devices to connect to. If you make the start up cost to high they will never switch or try the box out.


*Please think of the result of taking to high charge, the items we connect with the box are expensive as it is.

*Make sure you apply this on Premium functions and no cost on basic functions.

*And of course don't Beta test on payed services as it often feels with new functions now (including doing documentation for function before charging for it)


I have started to regain the trust and hope for zipato as a company.

Do not screw that up

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I agree with Nicklas comment that there are some features that could mean extra costs.

But the direction that you seems to be taking will make your box certainly one of the most expensive one on the market !


Think about it : you pay for the starter box, than adds on "PRO" , than modules (like energy consumption, additional protocols, etc...).. at the en the total cost of a zipato solution will be a real concern.

if, on top, you need to add licenses costs... this will kill your box...

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Not sure if it will be too expensive. The bare box is very cheap compared to other boxes. If you add what you need, you'll end up with a box that can do all you need, for most likely a lower or same cost as other boxes that can or even can't do what you want.


For a box that combines every protocol or hardware into a system that can be controlled from one app, and is easily upgradable for new tech, that itself is priceless :-)

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I agree about the clear specification of features requested to pay for. This is also the reason why we are still not officially enforcing this model. We will certainly add this specification into the description of each app in the store.


After almost 5 years of the heavy development, we don't won't to rush anywhere, and we don't want to compare anymore with each and every single home automation startup outside. Certainly there will be always some system which will have one of two of these apps available, but just like you said, the most important (and difficult) element of the home automation is to integrate it all (and of course, have it work for thousands of users).


We would like to create a highly professional, sustainable and future proof home automation system, which will satisfy consumer's needs today and in 20 years. In order to avoid mandatory monthly subscriptions (which was not welcomed idea here in this community), the main idea is to get the most of users to buy from time to time some new app which they may like. This way the new development will be ensured constantly, but not everyone will need to pay for everything.


btw. I kind of disagree that Zipato can't replace the old fashion alarm panel, as it has been use by thousands of security applications within the single big project only. However, let's discuss this at some other thread afterwards, as I do certainly agree that there are many things which we can still improve or add to it.


Anyway, thank you for the kind of feedback which we find very useful.

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I think an "application store" with "one time costs" to avoid monthly subscription costs is a good direction. So I encourage you to go that way. By the way, will you open you "App Store" to 3rd party developpers ?


I do recommend that the access to rules remains at no additionel costs (Http requests / parameters in Http resquet) as well as graphical history, because they should be considered as "basic funtions".

Cloud storage for webcam videos bigger than some GB could be an example of "advanced" paid features.

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With regard to having the Zipabox replace an alarm system I believe that it is only really a half truth. I previously had a wireless alarm system (Infinity Prime) that worked flawlessly and I wanted to get a home automation system that would also act as an alarm. The old alarm supported SMS alarm messages via a mobile network module. I chose Zipabox since it allowed for the most flexible device support and seemed really easy to program. But I have been very disappointed with the zwave protocol range. It seems totally unable to support internal and external sensors reliably. The only way to get a stable zwave mesh is to plug in various mains powered devices or boosters. This is OK for a home automation system but not really adequate for an alarm system since a cut in power to the house will collapse the mesh And make the house vulnerable to attack. I know this is not the fault of zipato and I also realise that zipato make a wired module and support some interfaces to dedicated alarm systems. My point is that if I wanted a wireless alarm system, a Zipabox is not a good solution. answer. Add to this the

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I agree completely with Marcus Khoo - I had / have a Yale wireless alarm that gave little trouble, but my logic was, why not go for a much more functional, upgradeable, visible system that will give some ability to play with 'toys' :o)


But I have had to modify my expectations over time to having a new hobby, based around reincluding, tweaking, adjusting and resetting... the system simply is not reliable in my experience (partly a criticism of Z-Wave, partly of Zipato). Still quite fun but when I try and explain my new 'hobby' to friends they think I'm nuts. It's a bit like having a high tech train set :o)


I get the sense we're pushing forward on new technology here, but this really not new tech is it? It seems to me it needs a game changer to bring it up to 'proper' commercial product levels of quality, documentation etc...

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I don't mind paying for extra services, but you need to make sure it doesn't get confusing. Out of the box you have the possibility to use the Zipato as an alarm, but users can also buy a security expansion module, which wasn't cheap :-) But if they then also have to buy a smart alarm pro license, it might be a bit much? So maybe when buying the security module, users need to get the smart alarm pro for free?


A bit like buying the Zigbee module, they don't get asked to also buy a seperate Zigbee license :-)


Also, put a description in the licenses, as at the moment it doesn't really tell people what they are buying? And finally, make it so that people can see what they bought, at the moment everything shows "BUY" in green, but if people bought the Sonos license, it should show another colour so people know they have it and not buy again.


Looking forward to v1 release.


DW

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I agree with Darkwing. Make good description / documentation of what you get when you upgrade/buy. I don't need to be inside the system, but in your homepage.


And as I said earlier. make monthly small payments / subcribtions istead of onetime fees.

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Already agreed about descriptions, and option with small monthly subscription will be certainly available as well. This one (premium plan) will keep open ALL possibilities of the system including even cloud based camera recording etc....

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For those of us who are enterprise resellers/solution providers with an average sales cycle of 9-15 months, I believe that a "menu of services" will make the life quite complicated.


Customers like multi-dwelling unit construction projects buy the idea at the very early stage. We convince them to add value to their properties by selling smart-homes rather than just homes. Most of the time the feature set they decide to implement is way different than the initial offer we put together for them.


But with the new licensing structure the intermediate offers or the final one will be unreasonably higher price than a non Zipato based smart home system. They can understand they must buy extra modules if they want to e.g. move from central heating to regional heating however they will not accept paying extra 59 USD license fee per smart thermostat to control a region especially when competing offers have no such burden. $59 x 4 regions/unit x 240 units = $56,640 on top of the new hardware is a major difference to lose a deal to a Vera of Fibaro based solution provider. While we will be the one who educated them on the benefits of selling smart homes, they will end up buying from someone else because they will be scared about the cost for a necessary revision along the way.


What about the case the sale is closed, units installed at the apartments and the construction company requested a simple feature depending on HTTP request puzzle. Customer will never understand why they will have to pay 240 x 59 = $14,160 USD for a simple feature other Z-Wave providers can do for free with a few line of LUA/LUUP code.


Let's assume we present the pricing logic at the beginning - lot's of "ifs" and "$"s. While the customer can barely comprehend the technology and the value add, the amount they may have to pay in the future for functionality they cannot imagine yet will scare them away. How good is that for business?


The new "pay per feature" or App Store logic may work for the retail part. However, enterprise solution providers are making the real profit from repeat business from the same customer, not the initial sales - and this pricing method will greatly lessen the likelihood of getting repeat business - provided we can get the initial one.


I am hoping these concerns are taken into consideration with a resulting win-win solution. Because we want to sell Zipato.

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Hi Serin,


thank you for your feedback. However, I think that it is necessary to distinguish these professional clients such as construction companies which you are mentioning, from retail customers. Someone needs to provide them with configuration and support of these HTTP requests. I haven't seen much (if any) constructors playing with LUA so far. On the other side, price of the Rule Creator PRO consist of development and support of various advanced features, but also the necessary margin for our integrators which will be required very often to provide support for it. Considering that the one time price for all additional features of Rule creator PRO is 59USD with Reseller margin included inside (probably some level of support), I don't think this should be such a big issue for that construction company which you are mentioning. Especially if you take into consideration that in your example, this will empower the 240 apartments, which worth not less than 30mil. Euro.

Anyway, market will probably shows up whether these products/services worth something or not. So far, we learned only that in order to be implemented properly, they certainly require some development and support (both from us and our partners).

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Are the Virtual HTTP request removed? So you mean I bought a product with futures

and now they are removed? That is absolutely unacceptable!


They really have to start to look at the competition, Vera, Fibaro,

Smart things, and soon Apple, Google, Samsung. Within 2-3 years there will be a

lot more competition then what it is now. When Apple comes with home kit and a majority

of people start using it.


I bought Zipabox for 4 reasons:


1) I wanted a more complex system then my Tellstick Net and Nexa things.


2) Zwave looked like a more professional system.


3) The local store hear in Sweden had it.


4) I could combine my old Nexa system with Zipabox. While switching to ZWAVE


I bought it even though people on the supplier’s homepage was warning about

it.


But my biggest complains is that the system does not work 100%. I can't have

lights that does not work at home. And if I had locks and alarm they have to

work 100% every time. My second complain is the App. The really have to start

to think about how you use the App. The fewer clicks the better. Scene and

lights should be on the front page and you should be able to see what you want

to see?


I have thought really much about how I would like the App to be designed, and

first of all it have to be designed depending on size of device (phone, tablet)

For example if you have a phone of about 5,5” there have to be a thought about

how far you can reach with your thumb. My suggestion is to have info at the top

where you don’t reach, and a menu right, or left depending on if you are right

or left handed. The colors should be simple and of course green, gray or black

as background.


And everything you fast want to change have to be rely easy. At the moment there

is 3 clicks to use a scene and it is in the right menu like it has something to

do with configuration. And about configuration they should be hidden and pas

protected. So if the kids, wife use the app they can only control what you want

them to control.


Lights should also only be 2 clicks if you want to turn them of and if you

want you should be able to control them from the first page like “ALL OFF” or “ALL

ON”.


I am surprised to see how the new app was designed.


“Keep it simple stupid” ;-)


Starting to question all this, and what system I should really use, and if

this is the best system, I will give them time until Apple release home kit but

keep my eyes open for solutions?

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Hi Jacob,


most of your concerns has been answered or commented in my previous posts already. Apps will certainly be improved in many ways, as they are very powerful now, and layout modification don't require too much time.

I would just like to make it clear, that we were never removing any features from any of our users. Features which you get when you buy the Zipato controller are yours forever. However, some of features which we will develop in the future will be available for purchase.

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Hi Sebastian!


But how do I achieve this when I can’t choose this in the menu?


https://www.youtube.com/wat...


And what abut the stability issues? You have seen my clips on youtube?

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you should be able to use http requests. Please contact support.

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Thinking: All of standard required functionalities as real alarm support, logging, export of data, local access and so on... are available at near to no cost on other box... Do I keep my Zipabox or do I move to J... for the amount of a zipato package annual fee ? Good question isnt'it ?...

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When will this firmware v1.0 be deployed?

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I can't imagine they will move soon to v1.0, because the Zipabox is totally unstable

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???

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In my experience there are a lot of open issues, for example:


  • rules executed twice when trigger is astro-scheduler
  • scheduler sometimes doesn't trigger rules
  • chart are not usable
  • box goes offline and require restart despite internet connection is working
  • alarm zones that became "not-ready" permanently and require to be dropped and recrated
  • ...

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  • ...
  • The web, ios and android applications display data even if the zipabox is offline ... (when have they been updated ?)
  • no possibility, for instance to switch on lights, when the zipabox is offline (same and more important for the alarm ...)
  • ...

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Yes, some of these are real problems (although some are just small eventual improvements and are not necessary for the v.1.0). With the new firmware (not yet v.1.0) some of these should be fixed (box goes offline, alarm zones "not ready", scheduler, rules executed twice...). After we get the confirmation it is fine, we gonna publish the v.1.0.

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hope you're right

Don't go to fast

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I note that there are all sorts of services shown in the UI but I for one have no idea what they mean.

  • Single license - license for 1 device. What device? Surely this is not a license to use a single Zipabox?
  • Cluster - allowing multiple zipaboxes to be configured as though they were one box. OK I get this description.
  • SMART license - 20 devices - what devices?
  • Rule Creator PRO - Advanced puzzle pieces - which ones?
  • Messaging PRO - is this just the http puzzle piece and the socket request puzzle piece and the ability to put variables into a message puzzle piece?
  • Nest - connectivity to the Nest proprietary network. What functions does this enable exactly?
  • Sonos - support for the Sonos proprietary network. What functions does this enable exactly?
  • Philips Hue - support for Philips Hue proprietary network. But what functions does this enable exactly?
  • Smart Theromostat Pro. What is a smart thermostat? Surely it is not what you previously called "climate widget". Isn't that part of the standard functionality?
  • Smart alarm pro. What is a Smart Alarm? Surely this is not was you previously bundled with the "security widget"? Isn't that part of standard functionality?
  • Global Cache. What are Global cache services?
  • Premium services for 1 year - Does this mean ALL services for 1 year including ones not yet even listed?
  • Unlimited licenses - unlimited license of what?

Have I missed the explanation of exactly what these services do?

Are they written down somewhere?

/Marcus

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I am as puzzled as you?


I think they have to differ, 2 different markets:


  1. Commercial use: for big buildings and services.
  2. Homer users that just like technology and home automation.

For example you will never have more than 15 things in one room and you will probably not have more than 10 rooms, so 150 units for home users is a ok I think.


If you have money to have more than 10 rooms you have money to buy a more expensive licens. Just an ide. But in general I did not hav a ide that the different services would be paid services.


I think the best thing would be to charge people for other thing like storage and so on.


I don't know? They do what they want, but they should be very aware of the competition and what people ar willing to pay for.


But if I buy a lets say extra divice to control Hue lights I don't want to buy a licens for that to. The same with everything els. And of corse the app must be as good as philips or better.

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Marcus, I'm of the same opinion, it's impossible to make a judgement based on the information given. I do know that if I had paid anything for the current songs functionality I would want a refund. Functionality is extremely limited.

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It is obvious that options are not well explained, so we will do it asap. Thank you for your support.

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Sebastian,

"so we sill do asap"

Can you please direct us to where all these options are now explained. Your post was about one month ago and I still can't find a description anywhere.. How exactly does this fit with your term "ASAP"?

Thanks

/Marcus

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I have to pay for the Messaging PRO to use variabels, is this right or shall it be free before 1.0 release?


I think the price for this simple function is to high, and I'm a little worried if this is Zipato´s price philosophy.

I really like this box so hope for a more detailed plan for the add-ons soon.

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Why can't you just fill up our "wallets"? We (that's the "pre 1.0 beta testers") can't even test most of the functions yet. I've been waiting for http messaging with variables for ages. Still I have to purchase the pack you have promised us for free.


Either create a "beta user" group and add us, or just fill our wallets. Can't be that hard.

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Now I have to pat for phillips hue (on previous version not ?) is that correct ?


- I also think the price is to high for this add on, now one will us it I think for this ammount

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I also think the prices is to high and think that you should be able to choose to have monthly payments and a yearly fee or unlimited fee. Then it would be OK to test the services and see if they fits your needs before paying alot of money. And if you experience a lot of "Connection timeout" on the webpage etc you will be able to opt-out without paying to much. (page down "11:03 27/6-15"

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I see that in single, smart and unlimited license there is this sentence "Price of the controller is related to the number of devices ...".

What is exactly the number of device that can be connected?


When I bought my Zipabox I don't remember such a limitation...

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Single


1 module

9 euro


Smart Pack

20 modules

59 euro


Unlimited

Onbeperkt aantal modules

99 euro


If you own the Zipabox (before v 1.0) then there is no limited.

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Thanks HeroS but it's not what I mean.

I mean how many devices can I connnect to my zipabox without buying any additional license if i buy a Zipabox after firmware 1.0

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If your controller doesn't have limitation than you can connect unlimited number of devices to it.


If your controller has the limitation you will se the number in your device manager.

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I need to understand this much better.

Does "Single" mean that it will cost a new user 9 euros to connect a single z-wave sensor (i.e. a door sensor) to a Zipabox?

If this is so, does that mean that when someone purchases a Zipabox the user will not be able to use it for anything until they subscribe with Zipato for 9 euros per month?

If I am correct and this is true then this must be made clear on all Zipato sales literature and on the web site otherwise the purchaser is not being told of the implications of the sale and as far as I am aware this is against UK law (consumer protection law).

Where is the documentation for all of the service options ?

Thanks

/Marcus

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Is there some service you can't use?

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There seems to be a new device limitation in effect. Or at least in my Device Manager/Browser it now shows:


DEVICES LIMIT: 50


Why is that?

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release it already!! Spend less time on this firmware and more time on adding devices!! :-)


Thanks

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Hello,


Can you provide a detailed list of each of the blind option?


In the titles of the blind, the options seem interesting but without the details, I do not know exactly what is dispoinible.

example:

Features:

-Messaging Pro

-Rule Creator Pro

protocols:

-Smart Alarm Pro.


I have acquired over the ZIPABOX, currently a first security module and the backup module with the 3G.

Two Zwave modules for fire detection.


I want to use the Zipabox in anti intrusion alarm system and dedicated fire detection, in addition, an all-IP video surveillance system with multiple IP cameras 1080P and a IPX800 for other actions.


Similarly, I can not find in the graphical interface, the option to purchase SMS.


The rules of these bases in the zipabox are good but limited to the use I would make.


Thank you for your advice.

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Why not make a physical add-on module containing a local Zipato control Center with a simple server and solid state mem and disc built in. This would enable the whole Zipato solution to Work offline, including rule creator and all.

Then the box would only need to go online for upgrades of the Zipato control center software and would be an assurance of service, even when the Zipato servers are down or no internet connection etc.


The same module could include hosting of the andorid/Ios app service interface (like when running local connection in the app) but be accessible directly from phone to your router->Ziaptobox from outside your home.


I think this independance from connecting thorugh Zipatos Cloud would be a great benefit and I think a lot of users would be willing to pay upfront for the physical module and possibly a yearly fee/or version X.0 upgrade fees of the software.

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This would be a good option, it would also allow for backup of rules and devices so you could easily transfer to a new box. Like I have said before, not everyone wants to or is connected to the internet at all times.

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I need info about add hysteresis control on the climate widget please reply me

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@Sebastian: I have been a user before version 1.0 but now I can't use my advanced rule options anymore. Is there something wrong with my account?

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It is probably some issue. Please contact support.

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I've just received the Zipabox and got it running. There's an option known as Rule Creator Pro, but it won't say what kind of PRO functions it adds.


I think you can at least allow user to have a 30days trial on the Pro options before charging them.


And please create some Simple to Advance Rule Creator tutorial videos.

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Agree. We are preparing the system in order to allow users to go with the Premium plan for as short as one month. Afterwards, only premium options won't be functional.


Btw. if you bought the Zipabox, you should have most services free of charge, otherwise, please contact support.

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I'm a newbie to home automation. I looked at some of the other options available and decided to give a Zipabox a try. So far I really like it for the most part. There are some bugs, but it also turns out you haven't even released version 1.0 of the software yet. I must say, I wish I knew that before plunking down my money, but caveat emptor I guess. Most stores have reasonable return policies so that's not too big of a deal to me.


There are a few things that are currently in the store that give me a little pause. First, if I were you guys, I would clarify the stipulations of the device licenses as absolutely soon as possible! To me, it looks like you're planning to artificially limit peoples' ability to connect devices even though your hardware is capable of controlling it. The "our device is more powerful!" sales pitch pretty much fizzles out when it's followed by "but we limit it unless you PAY". If the Zipabox can only "handle" 50 devices, fine, ask people to buy a second one if they need to. If it can handle virtually unlimited devices, GREAT! use that as a selling point. You don't see Toyota saying "our cars go up to 50 for free, and then it's only $$$$ for every 25 above that". Nor do you see Samsung selling TVs and then asking people to pay extra to "upgrade" their hardware to allow all the pixels to be used. Personally, I think that entire section of the store should either be eliminated or made to appear to be a LOT more valuable!


I appreciate the Rule Creator. It's cool and has eased the typical learning curve associated with learning a new scripting language. The GUI is a double-edged-sword though. In many ways, the things it make easier for beginners it make more difficult for experts. I'm not the biggest fan of sorting through the cascading menu looking for a command I could have typed out without even thinking about it. "IF / THEN" is a perfect example: takes 2 seconds to type, takes 10 to drag.

Anyway, back on topic, the Rule Creator is pretty cool, but let's be honest... It's a GUI that creates short scripts. For someone who knows that, the idea of paying $59 for extra colored rectangles is a little insulting. If I were you, I would EMBRACE the fact that you allow your users to create scripts and ENCOURAGE them to make as many as they can. I haven't used the other home automation hubs very much, but I doubt they even have an "IF THEN ELSE" option, much less a cool GUI that makes it easy enough for a lay person to make use of it. Limiting that unique feature to only elite customers might mean your box is effectively the same as the competition instead of being better in the eyes of potential customers.


I think the variables-in-notifications feature sorta falls into the same boat. It doesn't cost you anything to let people insert variables... I mean values.... into their messages, so why charge for them? This feature, which is free to you, could be used to set you apart from the competition. Right now, the fact that you're charging for such a feature might be all a potential customer sees.


Lastly, a bit about cloud storage. To me, this is a big one. I WANT my system to include cameras. I'm currently trying to find the best option to do this. There are a BUNCH of cameras out there, and many of them come bundled with basic cloud service. I'm not trying to get you guys to start handing out free cloud backup, but it might be a good idea to offer something that people can use to backup their footage for free. Is Dropbox an option? Sure, it wouldn't be very convenient, but at least when the Hamburglar comes to my house I'll have a chance to have some footage to hand over to police. I think a free, limited cloud backup service would go a long way to enticing me to upgrade to a better, paid package.


Hopefully this helps or whatever... :)

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Too bad Zipato is charging money for everything now. I was considering buying Zipato as my home automation solution, but seeing that Zipato will be as expensive as some competitors out there due to all add ons (no unlimited devices for example) means I might as well go with an other option that gives me a nicer looking interface for example. What doesn't help is that is seems that you do not have everything fully under control if existing users are getting limitations thrown in place as well. How would a new user know if it was supposed to be free or not... Very disappointed reading this thread...

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I am considering home automation. Is there a price list available?

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Hi, I finally bought my Zipato. It wil replace my alarm and my homewizard. As the firmware is still under 1.0, how is it possible the variables in the messages are paid?

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I think the mistake Zipato is making, typical for us Europeans, is not to think big.


Zipato I'm sure has three completely different kinds of customers, markets if you will.


1. the few rich people who couldn't be bothered at all by a 100 euros a year for securing their mansions and villas and castles.


2. the entrepreneurs, shop and business owners, for whom security and automation is high up on their list of priorities.


3. the great mass of us normal middle-class home owners, who will never consider paying a hundred euros a year, or 59, to try and control their energy expenses and also hobby around with automation and security.


It's clear to me that Zipato is focusing too much on getting rich from the first and second kind. And that, if you ask me, is a great mistake and a shame for all of us, including Zipato.


I'm actually rather surprised after three years why Zipato haven't grown to what I expected. Because they had the potential then, I thought...


There are plenty of examples out there ...


Think big Zipato.

Change your plan.

Find the right investors (and more good techies).

Conquer the market!

And then we'll be friends.

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I do agree its important to Think Big. Especially in this time where the medium size players like Zipato needs to cover as Big a marketshare as possible before the Big players enters the scene.


However I do Think theres a difference between e.g 45 euro and 100 euro. 49 euro is an average of what cloud bases services for consumers costs, Like Netflix AMO, and I am certain that price is not coincidental. As consumers we will have to her used to pay for the services rattet than the hardware, but 100 Euros is simpelt too steep for the purpose.

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Why should my smart house be dependant on a cloud service? I especially picked the Zipabox because it was supposed to have a local API. I can live with having to be online and use a web page to configure, but when running I want my smart house disconnected and not reliant on some web service.


That being said Zipato has dissapointed for two years. I've been an unpaid beta tester and instead of delivering a stable product they release new ones (like zipatile). I'm putting my zipabox up for sale and moving on.

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Pål, I feel your pain. I think the product has so much potential and the Zipatile looks great as well. However, Zipato support is via the forums is slow, they do many promises they can't make, lack of good manuals, unclear communication. Hope it will get better the next months, or perhaps they can open source a few things to let the community help them.

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These problems are common among startup companies (Cummunication and manual). In part I understand, because the IOT (+Home automation) area changes and develops rapidly, but...

As stated previously. Zipato will lose customers and markets, as these things (manual, support, communication) are not in order.


Home automation is also a somewhat awkward area, that it requires a very knowledgeable sales staff (not only www- shops) and electricians who are familiar with the Z-Wave. Both do not exist, for example, in Finland at all (None of the z-wave selling party was not able to give a qualified electrician contact.)


Tuomas

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I am a developer myself and bought the Zipabox because it was promising to be "hacker friendly" via it's local API. But nothing has happened for two years. It was on firmware 0.9 when I bought it and it's still at 0.999998 or something now. Stuff that used to work is usually broken in any new release and stuff introduced is only working half the time. All in all it seems clear to me that they lack good developers or that the team is lead by someone that does not know how to develop software.

That's the problem with companies. Behind the fancy web page with all the promises there might be just one or two people trying to do everything themselves.

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I recently did manage to create a C# SDK (not on Github) that works with remote and local API. Now waiting for direct MQTT... but that's postponend and postponed by Zipato

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Dear all,


At this moment the home automation is running on homewizard with kaku hardware though it reached the maximum it could scale to. Range is a problem though the system can't keep up with the amount of events that are generated. Hence it is time for something new.


Reading this thread left me in doubt as I'm not looking for the next mess as that won't sit well with the family. It took a long time for the family to adjust not having any buttons or switches though when zipato is not working properly the goodwill is gone quickly.


Can someone suggest alternatives tot homewizard or zipato which is stable, has no directional communication and can support kaku until it is fully phased out for Zwave devices.


Regards,


Martin

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Hi,

how can we get a CODE du get the upgrade to pro feature ?

Kind regards

Christian

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I would also like to know...

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Me too. I bought the system long before 1.0

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Sebastian,

No problem with paying fro a proper service, however your present website is the worst site I have ever seen. 95% of the screen is used by a "nice" picture. The navigation is hidden in the remaining 5% of the screen. When are you going to make a userfriendly website again like your previous website: one of the most functional website i knew?

regards

Robi

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Th 95% of the screen which you are describing is actually a "workbench" for creating rules. "nice" picture is just a background of the workbench. The main goal was to maximise the size of the workbench, since people are mostly using this tool for creating rules. For day to day control of their systems, users are mostly using mobile apps.


However, in the new version of the web UI, it will be possible to add more widgets on workbench, which will be more in line with what you consider as more functional. With this version this wouldn't be efficient due to the intensive client/server communication when there are too many devices shown on the screen.

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Will there be an option to remove the background images in the web UI? I find them very distracting and the quality on my 5k screen is not very good. That goes for all the icons as well. More and more people are getting 4K screens and images and icons should not look pixelated on these screens I think.

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And you use the ui ever day?


I rather that zipato puts the development time resolving the bugs that are in the system then pimping the ui.


Just my 10 cents ;)

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I agree :-)

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I read in previously post that for user with box registered before release of 1.0 firmware all option available are free of charge. My question is about hysteresis set less than 0.5 degrees. I see that now firmware is 1.0.8 .. setting of hysteresis less value of 0.5 is free o need upgrade for money???. Tnx . Is possibile eventually buy only hysteresis set?????